70.155.178.219

Published: September 2, 2011 at 1:32 PM

Disney wouldn't be able to effectively ban someone based on fingerprint scans as the scans are only held in database for 14 days after the last scan.
79.66.246.226

Published: September 2, 2011 at 3:26 PM

It would be easy for them to keep a file of anybody that's banned and check against it and keep deleting everyone else's after 14 days.
Eric S

Published: September 2, 2011 at 4:24 PM

I know Universal Orlando bans you for a year if you're caught drinking underage on property. They push it to lifetime if you put up a struggle or try to make a scene. I'm not sure what Disney's policy is on that.
174.101.115.66

Published: September 2, 2011 at 5:36 PM

These things mean nothing if they can't be enforced. This isn't the Vegas black book with camera systems that have facial recognition...etc. Short of something like that or a fingerprint scan, they really can't do much. Rules or laws that can't be upheld or enforced are bound to be disrespected. They might make some people think twice, but when it comes down to it, if that person wants to go and not be recognized, it's likely that they will be successful.
Bryan Fear

Published: September 2, 2011 at 6:32 PM

It's their park, it's their call. A lifetime ban, silly or not, is something they can control instantly by just saying it's so. Pressing criminal charges is harder to do, takes more time, costs a hell of a lot more than the $20 they were defrauded of and worse yet could result in a case law that blows up in their face and makes it somehow legal. ( Ex: Jury decides it was okay for some technical reason, case law is handed down that opens the door for everyone to hop the fence, etc. ) A lifetime ban, enforceable or not, is something they can control in theory.

....unless the guy had a really good disguise and yeah, you know I'd be doing that the very next day.

50.89.51.237

Published: September 2, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Is sneaking into a parking lot really worth risking getting banned? I'm, sure the park is saying you're one guest we can really live without your business. As well as sending a message to anyone else thinking about trying the same thing. As far as enforcement, it probably won't mean much unless you get caught doing something wrong on their property and law enforcement runs your name and the trespass then shows up. I hope the $20 was worth it.
Adam Wade

Published: September 2, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Very surprised to see this misconception here. Disney does not track fingerprints.

The scanners (even the new one-finger versions) do not take your fingerprint. They scan a few bones in your finger, do a mathematical equation, and come up with a # that represents you based on those readings. Your fingerprint is never kept, and there are people out there who will have the same # as you. This data is not kept permanently, either. So this would be a very ineffective way of keeping someone out of the park, at most it might alert them to look at you more deeply with facial recognition.

That said, as to the topic of bannings - private property, they can do whatever they wish. I can't imagine being such an idiot that I'd do something to get banned from a park, but if you do - well, them's the breaks. Even if it is not enforceable easily, I agree - it protects them from backlash should the person come back and do something again when they call the cops.

Overall, I agree - and I wish Disney would do MORE of this. I have seen some reprehensible behavior before at WDW - and if WDW wasn't so wishy-washy they'd make a lot more people happy even if the offender was not pleased at being removed after spending all that $ to come. When you see some anger-management failure dad in his 30's screaming and swearing at CM's over something stupid like a line for a character meet, and ruining the experience for the dozens of other guests in the area, instead of just letting them walk away they should be ejected, at least for the day.

Andrew Rector

Published: September 2, 2011 at 11:23 PM

Even if you have a lifetime ban at a theme park, you could come back to the park 10+ years later (maybe even five years later) and pay for a ticket in cash or have someone else buy your ticket and they would not recognize you. By then, hopefully you have learned your mistake and don't do anything stupid or illegal to get you kicked out. This lifetime ban is just to scare you from coming back for a really, really, long time (until you look and act different).

Its like, lets say you shoplift something worth a few dollars at Kmart, and you are caught. Instead of dealing with prosecuting you, they intimidate you by telling you to never come back in the store or else they will prosecute you. You don't come back into that store for a few years until you look different and hopefully learn to never shoplift again. Of course this guy tried to enter the parking lot again, so I guess some people never learn. I'm assuming he tried to drive into the parking lot through an exit or passage without a toll booth. I'm assuming SFGA doesn't charge you to walk onto the parking lot to get to the park.

98.141.142.210

Published: September 3, 2011 at 3:32 AM

A lifetime ban would be ridiculous. Who you are at 20 is not who you are at 25 or 30.
Joshua Counsil

Published: September 3, 2011 at 9:29 AM

Of course they're not banning him because they're afraid he'll be back. They're making an example of him. Look at how much press this guy is getting, and for what? Sneaking into a parking lot? They're just flexing their muscles to thwart future would-be rule-breakers.
Michael Gilmore

Published: September 3, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Any business has the right to ban anyone for any reason from its own private property that it pays taxee on and developes...just like we as private citizens have our own private property.

The fact that these cheaters tried to buck the system that you-and-I pay for is reprehensible. This makes them thieves. And, I have NO tolorance for thieves.

All Disney has to do is update their servers to store as many years as they need to. They can bundle their past months and years and have a program that checks the closed data so that if it does catch someone...they might get in the first time but that fingerprint goes on a special file that never closes.

It is sad that there are these kind of people trying to cheapen our world. But, there always will be...
Their little prank is not funny when you and I pay for it and we are the ones who lose in the end.

Michael Gilmore

Published: September 3, 2011 at 9:45 AM

Speaking of stealing in stores like Kmart, if one person stills one little candy bar...the store must sell 36 more just to make up for that one stolen bar.

Who do you think loses? The honest person...a large part of price hikes is just not the economy. It is to cover the increasing loses most big chains are now facing.

The vendors they purchase their wares from still expect full payment whether it has been stolen or not.

Now if it takes that many candy bars to equal just one...imagine how much more they must work to sell to make up big ticket items.

Michael Gilmore

Published: September 3, 2011 at 9:45 AM

Speaking of stealing in stores like Kmart, if one person stills one little candy bar...the store must sell 36 more just to make up for that one stolen bar.

Who do you think loses? The honest person...a large part of price hikes is just not the economy. It is to cover the increasing loses most big chains are now facing.

The vendors they purchase their wares from still expect full payment whether it has been stolen or not.

Now if it takes that many candy bars to equal just one...imagine how much more they must work to sell to make up big ticket items.

161.215.18.51

Published: September 3, 2011 at 5:13 PM

If a park can find a reasonable way of enforcing, I say go for it. It's private property; they can do what they want. I just can't believe someone would do something so stupid at to get banned from a theme park.
Terry R

Published: September 3, 2011 at 5:17 PM

If they can do it in an effective, reasonable manner, I say go for it. It's private property; they can do what they want. I'm just curious as to why someone would do something so stupid as to get banned from a theme park.
Anthony Murphy
Writer

Published: September 4, 2011 at 6:56 AM

I was about to submit this on Friday, but I was glad to see Robert "on the ball". As the SFGA guy on this site, here is my views.

While I know I might anger the editor a bit, but I really believe that the Tribune did not give the entire story. I feel that there might have been an arguement, threatening of personelle, etc. I felt that perhaps the Tribune left some of that out for a good story. I think this way because if you look at the other people who were kicked out for life (in the table in the paper version of the story), the people out for life did downright illegal and criminal actions such as mugging, sexual abuse, and bringing weapons into the park.

Also, can we please stop saying that people are justified for doing things because SFGA is charging alot of money? I know that parking seems like alot, but most people are getting in the park for around $40. Disney is charging a the least $50.....if you get a 10 day pass. Is the quality between Disney and SFGA different, of course, but you are basically paying the same price on your credit card bill. When people are in trouble at SFGA, thats what excuse comes out.

There was about a month ago a discussion from Screamscape about crazy SFGA guests. With that lower price, you tend to get people who don't usually get into the other parks and usually don't know how to act in public. SFGA or any SF park is not going to change until the clintelle gets a bit better. I am also thinking that this issue might be much worse at other SF parks.

Oh and you do get kicked out for line jumping. I am sure TPIers would appreciate that :)

Bruce Lane

Published: September 5, 2011 at 2:05 PM

Just a technical point or two. Adam Wade is partly correct in terms of what Disney's scanners are doing.

A bit of web searching turned up a photo of one of the scanners, the type where you place your entire hand, palm-down, on the scanning surface. This particular type of scanner is also widely used in airports, military bases, and other high-security areas.

Contrary to what some may believe, it does not read actual finger or palm-prints. It reads the physical geometry of your hand, and uses the data to create a 'match' number specific to said hand. The technology is very mature and reliable, having been in use since at least the late 80's. Here's a couple of links with more info on the technology itself.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/biometrics2.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=Hand+geometry+readers&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=8x1&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=CzllTuCyOrLWiAKFq-ysCg&ved=0CHAQsAQ&biw=1053&bih=602

http://www.acisecurity.com/products/handkey.htm

I didn't know the tech had advanced enough to do the same trick with a single finger, but I certainly don't see why not.

Keep the peace(es).

Anon Mouse

Published: September 6, 2011 at 7:26 AM

"But unenforceable lifetime bans seem silly to me."

That's just it. A season ban says its only temporary, but a lifetime ban means never return. They don't ever want him to return. The request is made clear. If they choose, they can prosecute for trespassing. They never did it the first time so it was an error on their part. It is quite strange that you said it was unenforceable when the guy was caught twice. This is a particularly strange guy. He will stand out from a crowd.

Adam Dodds

Published: September 6, 2011 at 7:40 AM

I know of two guest who were banned from WDW. One who hit me when I confronted him for sneaking into the FastPass line while I was working and another who snuck out of his roller coaster car on Space Mountain while the ride had an emergency stop. Just so you know, when some one trips more sensors on the already "broken down" Space Mountain, it "breaks" it more and he caused an extended down time.

I also know of some banned castmembers. They really do have a harder time coming back to the parks because their information is held onto. I know some former employees who tried to sneak in before their ID was removed from the system and the results were not very good.

64.132.32.226

Published: September 6, 2011 at 8:24 AM

My wife an I were riding Magnum XL a Cedar point a few years back. When we began the lift hill, on of theguys in the seats behind us proudly announced "I'm gonna ride this sucker standing up!". I don't know how he did it it, but the fool had managed to unlock the lap bar and was standing in the car.

His buddy (riding next to him) and myself began to pleas with him to sit down. I didn't want to see him die, and I was afraid he would take out people in the cars behind him when he was ejected. Luckily, the ride operators were on the ball and stopped us halfway up the lift hill (right next to that cursed speaker with the repeating announcement unfortunately).

One of the operators climb the stairs up to us, yelled at the guy to sit down NOW, and the slammed his lap bar back into place. He the returned to his station, and in a few minutes our car began to continue its climb up the lift hill. As we near the peek of the hill, we could see police cars arriving in the parking lot below. Sure enough, after an uneventful right, our would be daredevil had some new friends from management and several members of the law enforcement community waiting to him at the station.

This is where the guy proved himself to be a true grade A professional fool. He started yelling at the cops and calling the ride operator a liar. They were not amused. They promptly removed him and his buddy from the park. I felt bad for his friend. He had done everything he could to try to talk this fool out of trying the stunt, and yet he was thrown out too.

Before I left, I went up to one of the management looking types and told them I would be happy to testify as to what I had seen if if it was needed. The guy told me he didn't think it would be necessary. He also said that he doubted that guy would ever be allowed in the park again. I cant say I blame them. If you endanger your life or someone else's life in a park, you deserve to be banned.

Don Lancaster

Published: September 6, 2011 at 8:53 AM

My wife an I were riding Magnum XL at Cedar point a few years back. Just before we began the lift hill, one of the guys in the seat behind us proudly announced "I'm gonna ride this sucker standing up!". I don't know how he did it, but the fool had managed to unlock the lap bar and was standing up in the car.

His buddy (riding next to him) and myself began to plead with him to sit down. I didn't want to see him die, and I was afraid he would take out people in the cars behind him as well when he was ejected. We couldn't convince the fool that Mr. Physics would soon be teaching him a deadly lesson regarding negative Gs. Luckily, the ride operators were on the ball and stopped us halfway up the lift hill (right next to that cursed speaker with the repeating announcement unfortunately).

One of the operators climbed the stairs up to us, yelled at the guy to sit down NOW, and then slammed his lap bar back into place. He then returned to his station, and in a few minutes our car began to continue its climb up the lift hill. As we neared the peak of the hill, we could see police cars arriving in the parking lot below. Sure enough, after an uneventful ride, our would be daredevil had some new friends from management and several members of the law enforcement community waiting to him at the station.

This is where the guy proved himself to be a true grade A professional fool. He started yelling at the cops and calling the ride operator a liar. They were not amused. They promptly removed him and his buddy from the park. I felt bad for his friend. He had done everything he could to try to talk this fool out of trying the stunt, and yet he was thrown out too.

Before I left, I went up to one of the management looking types and told them that I would be happy to testify as to what I had seen if it was needed. The guy told me he didn't think it would be necessary. He also said that he doubted that guy would ever be allowed in the park again. I cant say I blame them. If you endanger your life or someone else's life in a park, you deserve to be banned.

(Note: Sorry about the double post)

169.139.1.20

Published: September 6, 2011 at 8:55 AM

Are lifetime bans ever justified? If so, for what? I'd like to hear what you think:


Any former or present castmember of "Jersey Shore" would be a good place to start when issuing lifetime bans from places.