Published: January 17, 2013 at 10:31 PMCedar fair seems to be small enough to want the parks, but big enough to bring up the cash
Published: January 17, 2013 at 11:44 PM"CEO Jim Reid-Anderson has gotten Six Flags' finances in order"- that statement couldn't be farther from the truth.
Bankruptcy court got Six Flags' finances in order and Jim Reid-Anderson took over as CEO with roughly a clean slate to work with. It's true that former CEO Mark Shapiro tried to get Six Flags' finances in order, but he wasn't able to do so.
Don't give credit where credit isn't due.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 6:17 AMDon't forget that Blackstone still might move forward with an IPO for SeaWorld, making them their own pup locally traded company.
I think Universal would make the most sense, but Disney would be awesome!
Published: January 18, 2013 at 7:09 AMa few points that mentioned on this discussion from the boards already:
Disney buying Sea World/Busch Gardens would give them their coveted Virginia park and also an area for a thrid resort area in Texas and that's west of the Mississipi so Marvel characters could be used at a second gate
Sea World in Orlando is actually as closer to Universal's property than Animal Kingdom is to the Magic Kingdom
Universal buying Sea World would allow either the complete overhaul of Wet n Wild or closing of Orlando's location and rely on Aquatica
With Sea World's attendance being added to Universal's and a bump from package deal:How close would their domestic attendance's be to Disneys
Merlin would have major parks on either side of Legoland in Florida to accent its attendance and their involvement in I Drive Live complex for Orlando
It would also give Merlin world class theme parks in America, which would take years if not decades to duplicate
Published: January 18, 2013 at 7:32 AMBlackstone could merege Merlin and Seaworld and sell both companies through an IPO.
Merlin policies could be changed.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 7:43 AMAccording to Reuters the two companies in early talks to buy Sea World/Busch Gardens are Apollo Global Management LLC and Six Flags Entertainment Corp.
I don't know too much about Apollo, but I think Six Flags would be a disaster for the parks. Even though I've never been a big fan of Sea World, they are known for being very clean and well kept up places, whereas Six Flags can be at times just gross places to be that just feel...sticky...is the only word for it.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 9:03 AMI selected Disney. Disney's own parks are doing quite well and they are constantly expanding to new markets, but it can take advantage of SeaWorld to good effect. With Animal Kingdom, Disney isn't afraid of exhibiting live animals; however, SeaWorld will have challenges that Disney may or may not be prepared to handle. Thus, it must decide if the operations make sense.
Universal is the second choice. Universal's focus on technologies in attractions makes an acquisition of SeaWorld a plus. They can bring SeaWorld to a new level. The biggest markets in California and Orlando will see a boost in attendance. However, the negative is the focus on the park away from movies unless they decide some movie properties should be integrated with SeaWorld.
The third choice is none of the above. I think Six Flags and Cedar is a step down. Six Flags and Cedar are all about coasters. They have no experience with themed entertainment. Of course, certainly SeaWorld can elevate them, but they can bring SeaWorld down.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 9:53 AMThe problem with the IPO route is that it doesn't allow SeaWorld to get bigger, to compete with Universal (at least) on a somewhat more equal footing. The current IPO might not raise enough money to cover the cost of the Antarctica expansion. Subsequent offerings for the whole value of the company would provide a welcome boost, but I don't see where they capitalize SeaWorld to the level where it can be a serious, ongoing competitor to Universal and Disney. Six Flags and Cedar Fair surely aren't, at comparable capitalization levels.
That said, if SeaWorld would be happy with occupying a second tier, between Universal and Six Flags, and Blackstone is happy with a series of public offerings, the IPO's a fine route. But I get the feeling that's not the case. It really sounds like Blackstone would prefer the straight sell.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 9:59 AMHere's another complicated, yet somewhat logical, scenario: A split sale.
Universal buys SeaWorld Orlando and SeaWorld San Diego (and their associated properties). Six Flags takes the Busch Gardens parks and SeaWorld San Antonio, which gets rebranded. Merlin gets Sesame Place and the Sesame Street license for the Legoland parks.
Or Universal retains SeaWorld's Sesame Street license (Universal already has the international license for those characters), and Sesame Place goes to Universal or goes away. (Maybe the property goes to Merlin as the site for a Legoland in the northeast? Merlin's been rumored to be looking at Rye Playland as a new Legoland site, so the region is on the chain's radar.)
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:01 AMRobert Niles writes: "The current IPO might not raise enough money to cover the cost of the Antarctica expansion."
I Respond: I am skeptical about the wisdom of building a theme park in Anarctica. They won't get the required local traffic.
Damn! There I go again pulling quotes out of context.
>> SNARK <<
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:09 AMI only have one word to say about Six Flags buying Busch Gardens and SeaWorld.
That is all.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:27 AMInteresting idea about a split sale...
But think you kinda have to keep the 3 Sea World Parks together not just for branding but also logistics for animals and trainers.
Now the North America Sesame Street license could be interesting in Orlando as a land for 3/4 gate with LOTR (yes that again)
I think if it was just Sea World Orlando, Discovery Cove and Aquatica the ink would already be dry for Comcast
Published: January 18, 2013 at 1:37 PMOptimally, Sea World Parks and Entertainment should be their own entity. As a proud employee of Busch Gardens I feel that a sale to a company that focuses more on roller coasters than the whole park experience would be a travesty' BGW was voted by National Amusement Park Historical Association as the "World's Most Beautiful Park" for the 22nd consecutive year! I have never seen a Paramount park, an Universal park, or a Six Flags park on that list. I have visited many parks, to include Disney properties, and have not seen any place that pays as much attention to cleanliness and overall asthetics as BGW.
If a sale is to occur, then a sale to Discovery would be a good match as Sea World Parks and Entertainment is all about education and environment. I hope they keep the company as a whole and not split it up.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 3:11 PMI would not ever want to see Six Flags purchase Busch Gardens. Not ever. I think that what Six Flags represents and what Busch Gardens represents are worlds apart, and Busch Gardens would lose everything in that process.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 3:53 PMI think Disney should purchase the parks. I live close to Busch and I am really tired of all the coasters, at least with Disney they have rides that appeal to everyone. I do enjoy the animals, but I also like the rides as well. I had a season ticket to Busch and got rid of it for that reason. I would take Disney, and Universal anyday compared to Busch Gardens.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 7:09 PMI'd suggest none of the major theme park operators go for SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment.
For Disney it would provide too many headaches. In an ideal world, no matter who buys the parks, the SeaWorld and, to a lesser extent, Busch brands should remain intact as they are a valuable asset. Disney, though, would likely be inclined to give the parks a Disney overlay, which may not work, especially in Orlando where SeaWorld is somewhere to go for something different to the Mouse.
Universal are looking at considerable capital expenditure on Orlando Potter Part Two and Hollywood Potter part one, not to mention lesser projects such as transformers at Universal Studios. Heed a lesson from Six Flags and don't spread your finances too thin, it will only lead to quality suffering in the long-term.
Cedar Fair and Six Flags really don't have the capital to make any purchase of this scale without putting their serious financial strain on the business.
Merlin is the most interesting. Blackstone want SeaWorld P and E off the books, but it may be just as much because they don't want to handle the management side as it is for a quick profit. Merlin are very good at what they do, and dominate the UK theme park industry, if a deal was struck for Merlin to take the parks then they'd likely prosper, but as stated by Robert that is very much dependent on Blackstone's intentions.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 9:52 PM"And would Six Flags executives or roller coaster fans salivate more over the prospect of Busch Gardens Tampa becoming the long-rumored Six Flags Over Florida? "
Coaster fans would not be salivating since we know that BGT has one the best coaster collection in the country especially with the pretty lame looking coasters Six Flags and Cedar Fair have been coming out with when they're not just moving the coasters to other parks.
Also compare the maintenance of Scorpion to the poor state of Revolution.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:12 PMI'm worried about Sesame Place. What would Six Flags do with Sesame Place. I work there and do not what to lose my job
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:24 PMHow about Herschend. They own or manage 5 smaller parks and 2 aquariums. They would be probably not have the capital by themselves. But in conjunction with another investor, they bring the operational skills.
I could easily see a joint venture with Discovery communications. Discovery's market cap is about 16B or 4 times either Cedar Fair or Six Flags while Herschend is private. It also ties nicely into their existing products. However, they don't know the theme park business while Herschend brings that to the table.
I could also see somebody like Marriott or Intercontinental Hotels as a potential joint venture partner.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:39 PMWhile I have only visited Busch Gardens Williamsburg, Tampa, and Seaworld Orlando, I think it's clear that the vision of what a park should be for Seaworld Entertainment is vastly different from that of Six Flags and Cedar Fair. Busch Gardens has striven to stay ahead of the curve on not only rides, but overall guest experience.
Several times, Robert has extolled the virtues of moving beyond the bigger, faster, more intense coaster race. I would say in this way, BG and SW are in lock step with Universal and Disney. Whereas, Cedar Fair and Six Flags have merely maintained status quo in themeing and overall guest experience (and that's a more than generous assessment.)
The only way I could see either of those companies buying the Seaworld portfolio and being successful is if they realign their current model to be in sync with the Seaworld model rather than the other way around. If not, they risk (personal this isn't risk it's guaranteed) that they will alienate a large portion of their base. I have owned a BGW platinum pass for the past 2 years and a annual pass for the 4 before that. If I saw so much as a suggestion that BGW was headed towards the likes of Six Flags America I would drop the pass like the stinky bag of poo it would become.
As for Apollo, the Great Wolf Lodge experience seems like the fool's Disney. Everything , aside from the water park itself, feels amateurish and half way done. The themeing is skin deep and doesn't speak of any investment by the creators as to it's meaning. Apollo buying the Seaworld portfolio would be like the owner our local college summer ball team, the Staunton Braves, taking the helm of the NY Yankee's.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:40 PMAlso, I abstained from voting because I'm waiting for a better option.
Published: January 18, 2013 at 10:53 PMI always have wanted to see a Starbucks park. The Sea Worlds and Gardens were run great for 30 years by a beverage company, why not Starbucks, Coke, Pepsi or Seagrams?
Published: January 18, 2013 at 11:34 PMAnybody, just not Disney, competition please, Disney is already big enough as it is.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 12:36 AMCan't see Disney going for this. Nor do I want them to, considering the current state of WDW. As far as Six Flags goes, anyone remember Six Flags Ohio, part of which included the former Sea World Ohio? Nuff said.
I voted Cedar Fair for one reason: Matt Ouimet. OK, another reason: they seem to be serious about keeping Knott's up to snuff with the Log Flume rehab and the previous referb of Ghost Town.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 12:45 AMI think i will buy it, I will ride the dolphins into the sunset every evening while all of you look on in jelousy.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 1:44 AMI've always wanted to see a Starbucks park. Considering that the Sea Worlds and Gardens were owned by a beverage manufacturer for 30 years, I'd consider Starbucks, Coke, Pepsi or Seagrams.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 2:17 AMAnon Mouse said "I selected Disney. Disney's own parks are doing quite well and they are constantly expanding to new markets"
What new markets?
There has been zero expansion in the United States for more than 40 years (Walt Disney World/Magic Kingdom opened in 1971). If you're talking about expansion in other parts of the world then fine, but Disney hasn't had any strategy of opening in new US markets and I think largely because there really are no additional markets that fit their current operating model.
Why is Disney even in this discussion? They have never expanded by acquiring existing theme parks and I doubt they will in the future. All of their parks have been designed in house and built from the ground up with their own themes and attractions. The theme park division is just one of many in the Walt Disney Company. In fact, I would argue that within the theme park division park operations is secondary to creating themes and attractions.
A couple of years ago there were rumors that Disney was considering selling its US parks. The rumor made sense since the two parks in Japan are considered to be Disney's finest from both a creative and operational stand point and Disney doesn't own either park.
If this had panned out then Disney would focus on what they do best and the park owner would license the creative allowing them to focus on what they do best - park operations.
My point is Disney should not attempt to acquire parks, but should instead continue to focus on building amazing theme parks and attractions. That's the best approach for Disney.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 2:27 AMSeaWorld Ohio was a failure before Six Flags purchased it. If it hadn't been, Anheuser Busch would've probably not sold the park. It's hard to operate a seasonal marine animal park. The operating costs (feeding, maintaining and training animals) continue year-round and yet the money only comes in when the turnstiles are open. SeaWorld was happy to rid themselves of that property while holding on to the only prized asset that park had- the orcas.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 6:25 AMI honestly can see Disney going for them this time around. Especially Busch Gardens Willamsburg and the Seaworld parks. Busch Gardens Tampa could be sold off to another company since Busch in Tampa is close. Only time will tell with this one.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 7:36 AMi have worked for ceder fair and its not that bad of place to work if cf buys sw and bg it would give cf 2 more year round parks but the bad thing is there gs needs a lot of work to get to uso/ioa and disney gs for me six fags oh i mean six flags would hurt orlando six flags safety for the guest and sea life will hurt the parks and money cf dont know any thing about sw and sae life six flags the same uso/ioa dont know mouch about sea life but they can learn like disney ak did
a side note i know my spelling is bad so forgive me
Published: January 19, 2013 at 8:33 AMBusch Gardens Tampa is not what it used to be after the acquisition by Blackstone. Blackstone sucked money from the park every year cutting Budgets and giving papers to 120 experienced employees thinking it would make a difference. Profit! Busch Gardens has gone down in quality and still survives with the good ole boy system from the 1980's. Blackstone is known to invest and run with profits at 5 years or less. Good luck to whomever buys Busch Gardens Tampa that is located in a high risk area of Tampa.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 10:06 AMDidnt disney buy mgm studios and change the name to hollywood studios? meaning they have bought other theme parks before
Published: January 19, 2013 at 10:32 AMEven Jeopardy allows misspellings...when the rest of an answer makes sense. I know there's people on here who will call me the "grammar police" and say it's not important, but to me it is, and reading that previous post was like reading a foreign language.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 2:02 PMpatrick moore - We all make spelling errors on occasion that can be excused, but there is no excuse for being unable to use the shift key to capitalize the first letter of a sentence or even your name or to be able to form a sentence which makes sense. I can hardly comprehend what you wrote. In fact, I don't understand it at all.
However, the point of me saying this isn't to point out that you can't write, but to say that I think you're rude and disgusting.
You said "Six Fags" and you intentionally said that because you correct yourself when you immediately follow it and type "oh i mean six flags". If you knowingly make an offensive error then why didn't you just delete it and type the correct word "Flags"? I suspect it's because you intentionally meant to offend others by using the word "Fags".
Move on. This site is great because generally people like yourself don't post here! If Robert is wise he will ban you since you're contributing nothing that benefits TPI.
Published: January 19, 2013 at 2:25 PMEric, I didn't even pick up the "Fags/Flags" thing.. i guess because my eyes were hurting so much from trying to read the rest of it. Where have you gone, Manny? Come back...all is forgiven!! :)
Published: January 19, 2013 at 3:35 PM"six flags safety for the guest and sea life will hurt the parks "
I've heard nothing but great things about the animal care and attractions at Six Flags Discovery Kingdom.
Published: January 20, 2013 at 8:31 AMI love visiting Six Flags but I don't know if Six Flags would keep Sea World/BG as-is. I'm afraid they'd turn it into another Six Flags where almost everything is the same, same rides, same themeing. I'm afraid they'd tear down nostalgic rides like Loch Ness Monster, or take away the animal acts, etc. just to put up an SLC clone or another 'standard' SF ride, etc.
I'm not too sure if I'd like SF buying out Sea World/Busch Gardens. I think Busch Gardens/Sea World are an entirely different entity & should remain that way...they should be bought out by a company (or companies) that would keep the parks' integrity and differences, compared to other parks, in place.
Published: January 20, 2013 at 9:24 AMI selected Discovery Communications. This will ensure that the parks stay true to what the represent. It's the perfect thematic fit.
Published: January 20, 2013 at 11:33 AMA SF purchase would be awful. I would hate to see BG Williamsburg turn into the same kind of rotten hole that is now the SF in MD. BGW is beautiful and nice for attendees of all ages. It is family friendly. None of these things describe SF MD.
Published: January 22, 2013 at 4:10 AMSeaWorld Ohio was NOT a failure! To call a park that operated for 30 years a failure is ridiculous. There are two main reasons BEC decided to sell, 1). Previous land agreements with Geauga Lake prevented them from building major thrill rides, and 2). Six Flags offered BEC 2x what the park had been valued at, an offer too good not to take. However there were some top executives in BEC who thought that sale was a terrible mistake, and I agree.
The reason Worlds of Adventure failed had to due with Six Flags' inability to run the giant park. Therefore I hope with all my heart that they do not buy SeaWorld, I voted for Universal.
Published: January 22, 2013 at 5:28 AMAnonymous poster: "Didn't Disney buy MGM Studios and change it to Hollywood Studios?"
MGM Studios was built from the ground up by Disney during the Michael Eisner years. The only reason they used the name MGM was to lend credibility associate with other major live action Hollywood studios.
They changed the name several years ago after a long battle over the right to use the name with the owner of the name.