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Drachen Fire... in Toronto?Okay, we normally don't go with anonymous reports anymore, but this one raises an interesting subject: should zoos try to become more like theme parks by installing thrill rides?
From Anonymous
[Editor's note -- Okay, we normally don't go with anonymous reports anymore, but this one raises an interesting subject: should zoos try to become more like theme parks by installing thrill rides? Posted September 4, 2004 at 10:42 PM Oh, and feel free to call B.S. on this writer if any of the basic info below is incorrect. This is an anonymous report, and none of the information below has been verified by anyone. I'm posting this simply to get a discussion going on a potentially interesting topic... though I welcome any attempt to confirm or debunk these details, on the record.] Hello Everyone, I work in Project Development at the Toronto Zoo (Ontario, Canada). The Toronto Zoo is a world class zoo which opened in 1974. In the time between then and now we have become one of the most respected facilities in the world when it comes to exhibits and animal care. We have recently started discussions and played with the idea of adding thrill rides to our zoo. This would be an attempt to attract a different demographic to the Zoo. While we don't have the capital to install and very large scale rides (hypercoasters etc), we would like to install a great ride at a reasonable price. This is where the Drachen Fire comes in. Having rode the ride myself in '93, I can honestly say this was one of the greatest coasters of all time. It is a shame it has been removed from Busch Gardens. If I have it my way, I would like to see this coaster design resurrected in Toronto (with some obvious modifications to increase rider comfort) We have started talks with Ron Toomer, who designed Drachen Fire (along with others like The Big Bad Wolf, Magnum XL-200 to name a couple). Mr. Toomer seems interested in the idea. I would like your opinion on a couple of questions. 1. Do you think bringing back Drachen Fire is a good idea? Do you think it would attract more guests to our zoo? Do you think this ride would be enough pursuede some Drachen Fire fans to make the trip to Toronto to ride the coaster one more time? I would like to hear any and all feedback (good or bad) reguarding this issue. Thank-you very much.
Comments in chronological order. Most recent at the bottom. Scroll down to respond. From Chuck Campbell
I'm a long-time passholder to Busch Gardens, Williamsburg, and there was a pretty good reason that Busch couldn't peddle Drachen Fire to anyone else and had to sell it for scrap--riding Drachen Fire (in its original configuration) was like going three rounds with Mike Tyson in his prime. Now there are folks with fond memories of this ride; obviously, I'm not one of them.Posted September 5, 2004 at 7:06 AM
From Noel G
With the introduction of rides into a zoo, good idea the only thing that concerns me is the impact of the ride and the screaming of patrons would have on the animals? As I have seen first hand when Dreamworld here on the Gold Coast Australia, had the "X-treme" experience which was based just behind the Tiger Island experience. The Tigers were snappy and very jumpy with the extra noise that was going on.Posted September 5, 2004 at 11:09 PM
From Ryan Traylor
okay.....here's the problem with Drachen Fire. It's not the ride's design. The exact same ride is located at Busch Gardens Tampa (with a different name) and runs smoothly.Posted September 6, 2004 at 11:48 AM the problem with the Williamsburg version was the location. Virginia has this problem know as shrink-swell soil. it has caused problems is housing developments across the state, break the foundation of houses. unfortunately for Drachen Fire, it was built over a patch of this land. therefore, as the soil shrank and swelled, it screwed with the track supports, shifting the track into directions it was never intended to be located. this is what caused the lateral motion of trains on the track and in turn would rock your head back and forth between the shoulder harnesses. BGW tried removing the "bad" portions of the track and replacing them with new ones, but this didn't work. so.....Drachen Fire is not a design flaw, it was a location flaw. for coaster enthusiasts, please understand that you should give Drachen Fire another chance as long as it's not located on that patch of land in VA.
From Zach Hoffman
Although I've never ridden Drachen Fire, here's what I think:Posted September 6, 2004 at 12:23 PM If you're trying to get more people to visit the zoo, then it's a great idea, if you let people know that it will be there. But, I think it would be great if you guys could put in an attraction that would compliment the experience of going to a zoo, not take it over. Otherwise, if you can, put in a thrill ride, but one that anyone will like, not just thrill-seekers.
From Jason Jackson
My understanding was that the original Drachen Fire was suppose to be a B & M Coaster and was designed, but for some reason Arrow had to finish it up. I think also, the trains were not the ones that were originally suppose to be on the track.Posted September 6, 2004 at 7:37 PM
From Russell Meyer
Blah Blah Blah...That rumor has been circulating since Drachen Fire was built. The only people that can answer that is BGW, Ron Toomer, and upper management from the now defunct Arrow Dynamics, all highly unlikely sources of banter about a detroyed roller coaster. The trains on Drachen Fire were the Arrow G2 trains which can also be found on Arrow's Canyon Blaster at Circus Circus Adventuredome, and were the natural evolution of Arrow coaster trains, and probably would have been used on future Arrow coasters if the company had survived the X debacle.Posted September 7, 2004 at 6:57 AM The bottom line is that Drachen Fire has been melted down for scrap, and the idea that Ron Toomer is attempting to resurect a coaster design that pained more people than it pleasured seems rather absurd. I was a big fan, but I know I'm in the minority, and any attempt by a coaster manufacturer to link a coaster design to Drachen Fire would not do anything for its popularity. Here's a mock headline... Coaster Manufacturer Resurects Top 10 Coaster Design that Was a Source of Multiple Injury Lawsuits Yeah, that's gonna happen!
From Coaster Enthusiast
DrachenFire was one of the best, and one of the worst. As stated above, the controversy would be enormous.Posted September 8, 2004 at 8:00 AM Also, I agree mixing thrill rides and animals is no good. Even the gentle hum of the Monorail at HersheyPark in PA causes grief with the bears and such.
From Russell Meyer
However, the mixing of rides and animals has proved incredibly popular at places such as Busch Gardens Tampa (where animals live less than 100 feet from a rollercoaster), Sea World, and Six Flags Marine World. I think if it's done propperly, it can be very successful.Posted September 8, 2004 at 10:09 AM
From Carey Lynn Holtsclaw
-"Arrow G2 trains which can also be found on Arrow's Canyon Blaster at Circus Circus Adventuredome, and were the natural evolution of Arrow coaster trains, and probably would have been used on future Arrow coasters if the company had survived the X debacle."-Posted September 8, 2004 at 4:11 PM Tennessee Tornado, the last Arrow sit-down looper built(1999), does not use G2 trains. It has enlarged versions of the Arrow trains from the 80s. No streamlining or anything of that sort. It provides a very smooth ride as well, something that Drachen Fire could not pull off in 1992. http://www.rcdb.com/quicksearch.htm?quicksearch=Tennessee+Tornado
From Coaster X
I was under the impression that Drachen Fire has already been sold for scrap after a buyer wasn't found, some years back.Posted September 11, 2004 at 4:31 PM
From Coaster Enthusiast
Yeah.Posted September 14, 2004 at 3:11 PM The steel remains of Drachen Fire were smelted. The poster of the above story suggested "re-creating" the coaster using the original plans, not rebuilding it from the original pieces. I've mentioned this post to my co-workers, and they agree: rides and animals do not mix well. As for BGT, the habitat was created with both in mind, not just adding a coaster to an already stabilized zoo. Even I cringe every season when the week-long street fair hurls itself just a few blocks from my home. I just can't imagine animals having to live with the noise for an entire season.
From steve lee
Maybe they should have just chopped the thing down into small pieces and sold them in gift shops. Who wouldn't want to buy a piece of a coaster?Posted September 15, 2004 at 8:31 PM And what coaster at BGT has the same design as Drachen Fire? I've never heard that one before...
From j j
If BGW was smart, they would put brand new trains on the coaster. It wasn't too intense, it was just the damn cars. That thing shouldn't of been torn downPosted September 25, 2004 at 8:13 AM
From Thomas Jackson
I'll go ahead and answer anonymous's question. I beleive that building the ride is a great idea and would attract more guests. Usually something like this attracts more guests. However, you should ask the designer (Ron Toomer) if he would modify the ride abit to fit in the area, etc. and ask Arrow, or whoever is going to make it, if they have come up with any improvements on their track system, trains, etc. That way, it won't be an exact copy, but an improved copy of Drachen Fire.Posted September 26, 2004 at 5:34 PM
From Richard Sikes
DRACHEN FIRE WAS THE BEST ROLLER COASTER IN THE WORLD IT WAS MY INSPIRATION TO BECOME A DESIGNER. I remember the first time I rode it in 93, at night. It was not rough at all I don't care if you don't like it but if they put it in toronto I would go to see itPosted October 29, 2004 at 2:31 PM
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