my leviathan experience
Anyone else been on?
Hi I just wanted to tell you bit about my leviathan experience.
It was a pretty good roller coaster somebody else thought behemoth better though.
I loved the first drop as we all know the first drop is always the best part of a roller coaster.
I had to wait a couple of hours because they had computer problems but i did not want to loose my spot in line. because it was not working for bit there people were leaving the line and when they were doing that it just brought me closer to the station.
So is there anybody else here that has been on leviathan yet?
From Dan S
Posted August 9, 2012 at 8:49 AM
On my way down the list reading all of the TPA4 threads (brilliant ideas everyone by the way) I came across this.
I went on it for the first time yesterday, and my thought was exactly this..... When will Cedar Fair smarten up and spend more than one year on a ride ?
The drop was good, but the ride was over too quickly for the ride and it lacked originality, and thats an understatement.
I really wish that these un themed parks step up their game, because I know that I and many others are getting bored with the same new ride concepts over and over again.
Dan said: "When will Cedar Fair smarten up and spend more than one year on a ride ?"
Please clarify what you mean by that. Are you talking about the planning/design/development timetable? Because it doesn't have to take that long if they're working with the right concept/designer/builder to begin with.
From Joey Till
Posted August 9, 2012 at 9:37 AM
I will definatley agree with Dans point of originality problems. However, B&M needs to start openly making more creative rides. Atleast with their B&M Hyper coasters. Raging Bull is the only unique one. Every other coaster takes a strait down drop, does huge camelback hills all the way out, then turns around and comes back. Leviathan really lost a lot of interest becaause once again it has the same layout. Once Intimidator came out at Carowinds it kinda got the the point finally for me. B&M Hypers usually become the best attraction at the parks they are in, so there is no doubt they are fun rides. But its really starting to become overwelming with B&M's layouts. Atleast the Shambhala or hower you spell that has that unique turn around. If more of theese coasters would have theese new features, it would already give them a boost. Ofcourse the general people don't care though, so I understand Canada's Wonderland putting this in. Because most people don't know of the similar layouts found on other coasters.
I just disagree with building a giga at CW because of, duh, Behemoth. Somehow they could have fit something like a floorless looper or a flying coaster and remove that dang Zamperla flyer. They didn't need a giga. Other than the lift hill, the course was no different then what you'd see on a regular hyper. CW lacks a good inversion coaster. It seems like Cedar Fair is spending all their money on the Wonderland. California's Great America is in a serious coaster drought, Michigan's Adventure got an old Vekoma SLC, and Cedar Point seriously needs some modern coasters with whatever land they have. I'm not saying Michigan's Adventure or CGA should have a B&M giga, but they need something new. Cedar Point is still my favorite park, but they have some coasters that would last much longer at a smaller park, but at a premier one like CP, they need to be replaced. They even have a Mean Streak. SFMM and SFGA's coasters seem all up to date, which is why they're seriously gaining ground on Cedar Point in about any way. CGA and CP seem to be getting new coasters this next year, and it's about time. But each might feel like Leviathan. Not more than a year on each. Man, I didn't think I'd write a whole book about this, and bring Cedar Point into this, but Cedar Fair does indeed need to "shape up."
From Dan S
Posted August 9, 2012 at 12:30 PM
Mike,
I didn't mean spend more time on the project as much on an engineering scale as much on a creativity scale. The example I am using is going to be hard to argue with, because it is comparing Walt Disney World to Cedar fair, which is like comparing football at an NFL level to a high school level (slight exaggeration, but the point still comes across), but look how much time Disney has spent on The Mine Train, or even on Everest? I mean i know Everest is a huge Multi-million dollar project by Disney, but why can't Cedar fair at least start heading in that direction with their coasters? Or even bring some of the designs from Cedar Point in Ohio to other parks, like Wonderland?
Thanks, Dan. I think I understand a little better what you mean.
"Cedar Point is still my favorite park, but they have some coasters that would last much longer at a smaller park, but at a premier one like CP, they need to be replaced."
You're kidding right? Most coasters are built to last at least 20 years or more, unless they have some special defect or high maintenance costs. Most of Cedar Point's coasters are custom designs, meaning that they paid a premium to have a one-of-a-kind layout. In order to break even on the cost of a coaster like Top Thrill Dragster, it needs to operate for over a decade to cover its $25 million price tag.
You just can't decide a coaster is old and tear it down to build the latest and greatest. Some parks have done this, but it's pretty rare. In many instances the rides are shifted to other parks within the chain (Dominator at PKD or Apocolypse at SFA), while other are simply ripped down and sold for scrap because of operating/liability costs (Drachen Fire and Big Bad Wolf at BGW come instantly to mind). When you have custom-layout rides, they typically can't just be moved somewhere else, and when you're spending $25-30 million on new rides, you can't afford to take older ones down, especially if they're still drawing well.
Of the coasters at Cedar Point, what would you take down? Magnum would be an obvious choice, but it would take some serious guts to tear down a former record-breaking coaster that still draws pretty well on busy days. Corkscrew is another, but it's footprint doesn't lend itself well to a quality replacement. Disaster Transport is coming down to make room for Gatekeeper, so you're already getting your wish there. Gemini isn't going anywhere as it was the second tubular steel roller coaster in the world (after Matterhorn). Iron Dragon is probably due for retirement, but it's one of only 4 suspended coaster left running in North America. Mean Streak can go, but CP keeps toying around the idea of retracking or revamping the ride. A complete teardown and rebuild would take 2-3 years and a lot of money to produce a ride on par with El Toro or The Voyage.
It's just not as easy as it sounds to rip up coasters after just 20 years and replace them with a $20+ million coaster.
Gatekeeper?
I must have missed the announcement of the name.
From Joey Till
Posted August 10, 2012 at 12:57 PM
Why can't you decide to tear down a coaster thats old? If its a FUN, popular coaster thats old, then you don't tear it down, but if its a coaster thats old and is loosing popularity, you DEFFINATLEY can tear it down. Parks tear down rides all the time because they are getting old. Big Bad Wolf, Texas Chute Out, Disaster Transport, multiple first generation free fall rides, Wildcat at CP, Whizzer at Cali Great Amer., Multiple shuttle loops, etc. I agree that you should in most cases leave some of the classics, and most parks do, but theres no rule that says THOU SHALT NOT TEAR DOWNETH OLD RIDES BECAUSE THEY ARE OLD. But I see where you are coming from with the cost to do such a thing. But rides that have been taken out for more moden attreactions would be, Shockwave for Superman UF at Sfgam, BBW for Verbolten, Great Gasp for Goliath at SFOG, Viper for El Toro, Disaster Transport for WIngrider (thats named gatekeeper?) etc. Parks will tear down old attractions for the most profit, tearing down a lot of Cedar Points coasters like Bradley said for newer ones won't happen for all of them, and its good they won't, but I can agree a lot of the coasters seem quite old. There seems to be a fine drop off from the old Cedar point rides to the new ones.
Let me explain a few (okay, quite a few) things. I didn't mean to just rip it all up after a few years. What I meant is, no one says "Can't wait to ride Corkscrew! Can't wait to ride Iron Dragon! They don't need to go because of this, obviously, and no park has 100% the newest thing ever. Every park has rides like this. I might have sounded like a CP fanboy who says, "Tear down Top Thrill Dragster! It's almost 10 years old!" "Oh my gosh! Raptor needs a new paint job! It needs to be replaced with a 500 foot 200 mph launched coaster!" "Cedar Point doesn't have the height record anymore!" "They don't care about coasters anymore!" I didn't mean to sound like that. And they're not going to remove Corkscrew and put in the world's longest coaster or something, trust me, I know that's impossible.
Corkscrew and Iron Dragon will be pretty darn hard to replace because of their size. It won't happen today or tomorrow, I know. What you said, Russell, I understand. Cedar Point isn't in sandbox mode in rct3. Twenty million is quite a large amount of money. When rides reach the end of their productive lives, they get torn down. When a productive life ends, that's up to the park. It's an opinion. World's of fun has removed countless classics for things like Vekoma Boomerangs. This year CP removed Wildcat and explained that it's productive life ended. I liked Wildcat. See? I liked a ride and thought it shouldn't have been torn down! (I say this with a smile on my face, if that makes since. I'm not mad.) And what I said about rides lasting longer at smaller parks, I didn't say they should be relocated. Yes, relocating anything custom is hard if not impossible, and anything wooden is extremely hard to move. Phoenix was successfully relocated, but it was custom as The Rocket so some was edited. what I meant is that at a small park, they'd be great, but at Cedar Point they raise some questions. An example that helps me explain this is Silverwood Park. Their signature rides are what was once Corkscrew at KBF and Aftershock was once Deja Vu at Six Flags Great America. Both of those parks decided those rides needed to go, and they each got replaced with what they thought was better. Silverwood was happy to take perfectly good rides, but that major park decided to let them go for a reason or another. Corkscrew (CP) and Iron Dragon would seem pretty good at a smaller park. But I didn't mean they should or could be relocated. At Cedar Point they have no line, and the majority of the train is empty. However, I know they won't go anytime in the next 5 years. And Mean Streak cost money, and they will probabuly do a major refurb like you said and make it great again without demolishing it. (I would rather see this then a new steel coaster anyway.) But if a ride needs to be refurbed (Mean Streak) or removed completely (Disaster Transport) it wasn't good the way it was. And lastly, you said I am getting my wish about Disaster Transport. I said some of the coasters might need to be replaced. Not right now, but in about 10 to 15 years they will seem very outdated and... maybe... talk will start about removing them.
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