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Cedar Point vs. Magic Mountain Part 1

A classic theme park ravelry, who is the roller coaster capital of the world? You dicide! I will put every coaster against another, then you vote to which is the best!

From Josh Morgra
Posted August 13, 2012 at 2:59 PM
If you might not of heard of the news of Cedar Point new roller coaster I am sure you will soon! So I want to see what park is better, and I want to let you guys vote on what you perfer. How I will be doing this is every Sunday I will post that weeks mach up and through out the week you guys can cast your vote and discuss which you like better. Then on the following Saturday I post our winners and the current score bettween our parks. Now I have put the coaster into 4 catagory Identical coasters, Simialer coaster, comparable coaster then the one that are left. This week I will begin the compatition with 2 from similar and 1comparable I will give you many facts about each coaster. Also if you haven't rode the rides I ask you to at least watch a video of it so it fair.

Top Thrill Dragster (CP) vs. Superman:EFK(SFMM)
Our first match up is from the comparable catagory which I put here because they both have some things in commen the both break 100 mph and launch you in the air. However TTD beats Superman on paper with 120 top speed and 420 feet in the air. Superman has top speed is only 104 and only goes up 318 ft. but I do think the theme of this ride makes it competitive. Superman also has the advantage in the duration with 28 sec over TTD’s 17sec. Both of the coasters where built by Intimin superman in 1997 six years before Top Thrill. I think both of them are great ride that scare even the toughest of people.

Corckscrew (CP) vs. Revolution (SFMM)
This one I put in the similar category because they have a lot in common, both where opened in 1976 just days apart and both coasters aren’t very intense. However I think Revolution has a slight edge b have a height 15ft larger than it competitor (80ft) and reaches speeds of 55 mph. Revolution is longer than Corkscrew but in this case I believe it’s a disadvantage because corkscrew is more intense where as revolution doesn’t have to many intense moments. Both of them where built for under 2 million and both can pull about 1500 people thru in an hour.

Mean Streak (CP) vs. Apocalypse (SFMM)
In our last match up of this post is sure a good one between to wooden coaster both extremely similar, if you have rode both you know what I mean. However after mean streak’s new renovation it is almost feels as smooth as a steel coaster. Mean streak hit speeds of 65 mph and height of 161 ft. and the ride is just shy of a mile long it was built by Dinn corporation for 7.5 million. On The other hand Apocalypse is longer in time and only hit 50 mph and 81 feet height but does have an ok theme. Now you guys chose I gave you our three match ups now you guys leave your feedback and votes below and come back the Saturday and see the winners!!!


Comments in chronological order. Most recent at the bottom. Scroll down to respond.

From Joey Till
Posted August 12, 2012 at 11:47 PM
Spent half the day there today on my vacation and rode, with barely any lines, Revolution, Viper, X2, Tatsu, Ninja, Apacolypse, Riddler, and Green Lantern. I was there for three hours, walked on pretty much every single ride I rode. X2 was ten minutes at most and the Raft Ride was the longest wait of the day at 20 minutes. I was at the park for three hours and was happy from what I saw. I am spending a full day on Tuesday. SFMM already is my new favorite park, which used to be cedar point, and I havn't even spent more than 3 hours there. Although I will proly say Milenium Force is better than any coaster at SFMM, X2 is close though. Magic Mountian has more modern, new, and unique thrills. While Cedar Point has many great coasters, but then drops off into coasters that really do not stand out. Six Flags brings the thrills to SFMM is every way. While Cedar Point will get its first coaster in five years, SFMM puts nearly a coaster a year in. Overall SFMM has me convinced it is better after three hours there. So I would say winner goes to SFMM.

From Joey Till
Posted August 12, 2012 at 11:59 PM
Woops, my bad. I didn't see the coaster matchups. I guess I was to excited to write about SFMM :D. But heres my votes:

Superman EFK vs. Top Thrill Dragster
I have not ridden Superman, yet. So I can't vote now until tuesday. But its gonna be hard to beat my second favorite coaster!

Corkscrew vs. Revolution
I really enjoyed Revolution! The harnesses were to far away from my head to bang it, and found it to be smooth, and just plain fun. While Corkscrew, which isn't to bad I guess, does bang your head and smacks you one right in the gut on the hill before the loop.
Easy: Revolution

Mean Streak vs. Apacolypse
This one won't be to hard. Although I find the Mean Streak to be boring, and not really "rough" it still is a waste of space that gives little enjoyment.
Apacolypse was fast paced, crazy, and well themed. The air time was not as good as expected, as it seemed more of a speed woodie. This ride was the deffinition of fun!
Even easier: Apacolypse

I will vote on Superman Tuesday when I ride!!! Nice thread and good timing for my trip :)

From Bradley Keith
Posted August 13, 2012 at 4:05 PM
Six Flags Magic Mountain is basically where Six Flags put in all the "good" coasters. XFlight and Superman have nothing on anything new at MM. Dragster is better than Superman. The reverse free fall just isn't... exciting. It's all in the launch. Revolution is better than Corkscrew. Loops are much less rough than corkscrews. Anyone who thinks Mean Streak is better than Apocalypse has obviously just hopped out of a time machine, last stop 1991. Comparing something new like than to Mean Streak doesn't give MS a chance, so I'll say Psyclone vs. Mean Streak. (Mean Streak. Colossus and Mean Streak? Colossus, more for the "classic" value.) Raptor is better than Batman, nothing else to say. Goliath is better than Magnum, but again, that's maybe not a fair matchup. Millennium Force is better than Goliath, but not by too much. Mantis and Riddler's Revenge, I'm going to say Riddler's Revenge, but Mantis is pretty darn good for a stander, compared to RR. Ninja is better than Iron Dragon. ID is too short. Cedar Point confirmed Gatekeeper. Magic Mountain's rumors to a potentially epic answer to Maverick stay low. Overall, both are great parks with great settings. Each are amazing, but Cedar Point seems a hair better because of their ability to break world records and the history of that place. But you have to go to each of them.

From Nick Markham
Posted August 13, 2012 at 4:36 PM
In terms of coasters, SFMM might provide more competition for Cedar Point. But there really is no competition in overall ark/resort experience. Cedar Point quite honestly is the greatest amusement park resort in the world (note: not theme park resort, like Disney and Universal, but amusement park resort). Not only does it offer high quality coasters, but high quality thrills rides, family rides, entertainment, lodging, and more.

From Jeff Elliott
Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:30 AM
Magic Mountain vs. Cedar Point

Top Thrill Dragster vs. Superman: Escape from Krypton – Somewhat similar rides, Top Thrill as a complete circuit and much faster load and deployment, being both taller and faster gets the advantage. +1 Cedar Point

Apocalypse the Ride – Relatively new woody by GCI, nothing to compare to at Cedar Point. +1 Magic Mountain

Batman: The Ride vs Raptor – Similar inverted looping coasters. No advantage.

Canyon Blaster vs. Jr. Gemini – Both Kiddie coasters. No advantage.

Colossus vs Mean Streak – One is a racing coaster that rarely has both sides running and the other lives up to its name of being mean. No Advantage.

Gold Rusher vs Cedar Creek Mine Ride – Both classics, both for the mid to young set. No Advantage.

Goliath vs Magnum XL-200 – Height 235ft vs 205ft. The drop is bigger on Goliath, but the two sets of helixes are enough to rip someone’s head off, Magnum combats this with a ton of bunny hills and airtime. +1 to Cedar Point

Green Lantern: First Flight vs Wicked Twister – Both small footprint rides with extremely unique elements. The advantage goes to Wicked Twister based on capacity alone. +1 Cedar Point.

Magic Flyer vs Woodstock Express – Both kiddie coasters. No advantage.

Ninja vs Iron Dragon – Both suspended swinging coasters. similar in many ways. No advantage.

Revolution vs Corkscrew – Both classics and prototypes of unique new elements. No Advantage.

Riddler’s Revenge vs Mantis – Both standing coasters, both very similar. No Advantage.

Road Runner Express – Another kiddie coaster? How many kiddie coasters do you really need? A disgruntled +1 Magic Mountain.

Scream! vs Maverick – A B&M floorless looper themed to a parking lot and an Intamin ground hugger with several unique elements and airtime to spare. Maverick kicks the crap out of Scream! any day of the week and twice on Saturday. +1 Cedar Point.

Tatsu – A flying coaster. Nothing to compare to at Cedar Point. +1 Magic Mountain

Viper – A classic Arrow looper. Nothing to compare to at Cedar Point. +1 Magic Mountain.

X2 vs Gatekeeper – the advantage here will always go to X2 for being an extremely unique coaster. +1 Magic Mountain

Blue Streak – A classic old wooden coaster. Nothing to compare to at Magic Mountain. +1 Cedar Point

Gemini – A classic steel on wood racing coaster that actually runs both sides. Nothing to compare to at Magic Mountain. +1 Cedar Point

Millennium Force – The first of its kind in height and speed. Nothing to compare to at Magic Mountain. +1 Cedar Point

Final Coaster Advantage Score
Magic Mountain - 5
Cedar Point - 7

Atmosphere – Magic Mountain has many problems with local gangs and kids running wild that Cedar Point doesn’t have. +1 Cedar Point

Maintenance – Magic Mountain has many problems getting all of their coasters running to full capacity. Once again, Cedar Point doesn’t seem to have these problems. +1 Cedar Point

Capacity – Magic Mountain seems to be very happy to run 2 trains on a coaster built for 5 trains while the wait stretches to hours, and rarely runs both sides of Colossus. Cedar Point typically runs full capacity on their rides trying to shorten the lines and up the capacity as much as possible. Magic Mountain thought it was a good idea to install Green Lantern that has a notoriously low capacity. +1 Cedar Point

Cleanliness – Magic Mountain is usually trashed by the teenagers running wild. +1 Cedar Point.

Staff – Magic Mountain staff is typical of Six Flags staff in general. Sixteen year old kids that could give a rat’s bottom about being there. Magic Mountain also seems to staff the absolute minimum amount of people to run a ride. Cedar Point typically has an older set of ride ops, and staffs up extra people to help keep the line moving faster. +1 Cedar Point


Conclusion:
While Cedar Point has a slight edge on Magic Mountain in the roller coaster department, Cedar Point kills in all of the other areas.

Cedar Point wins!

From Russell Meyer
Posted August 15, 2012 at 10:55 AM
Cedar Point is falling seriously behind in the coaster wars, even with the addition on Gatekeeper. Yes, Dragster is better than Superman: The Escape, Millennium Force is better than Goliath, and Raptor is better than Batman: The Ride. However, with the rest of the comparable coasters, Magic Mountain has the edge. Both of Magic Mountain's woodies trump Cedar Point's. Riddler's Revenge far supercedes Mantis (one of the worst B&M floorless coasters on the planet), Ninja is way better than "Dragin' Iron" because it's use of the terrain, and Revolution runs laps around Corkscrew not only in ride quality, but in nostalgia as being the first looping coaster in the world.

If you examine the rest (and I'm not including kiddie or "family" coasters), Magic Mountain has a substantial edge with Viper, Scream, Green Lantern, Tatsu, and X2 blowing the pants off Magnum, Gemeni, Maverick, Wicked Trister and Gatekeeper (granted it's difficult to fully evaluate a coaster that hasn't been built yet).

I know Cedar Point has it's fanboys out there, but Magic Mountain has really beefed up it's lineup in the past 10 years, and has dramatically surpassed Cedar Point. It doesn't take away from the pathetic operations and customer service at Six Flags, but from a purely objective viewpoint (I've never had a great experience at Six Flags Magic Mountain), the California park easily dominates Cedar Point head to head.

From Nick Markham
Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:18 PM
In short, here's my list (in trademark Jeff Elliot style):

Top Thrill Dragster VS Superman: TTD easily routs Superman. +1 Cedar Point

Apocalypse VS Mean Streak: Though an unfair comparison in some ways, these coasters are similar enough to compare nonetheless. Apocalypse wins this one. +1 Six Flags Magic Mountain

Batman VS Raptor: Batman is classic in terms of inverts, but Raptor is far more unique and thrilling. +1 Cedar Point

Canyon Blaster VS Jr. Gemini: Jr. Gemini has a far more unique layout than Canyon Blaster's cookie-cutter oval kiddie coaster style. +1 Cedar Point

Colossus VS Gemini: Some will probably disagree, but I would much rather ride Colossus than Gemini, especially when it's running reverse trains. +1 Six Flags Magic Mountain

Gold Rusher VS Cedar Creek Mine Ride: Both very similar, but I think CP put more thought into its mine ride, with far better theming. +1 Cedar Point

Goliath VS Millennium Force: I know, I know, most people have been comparing Goliath to Magnum, but I am trying to leave out as few coasters as possible. Goliath looses either way, so might as well pit it against the spectacular Millennium Force. +1 Cedar Point

Green Lantern: First Flight VS Wicked Twister: again, probably several will disagree, but I just don't see the thrill of going back and forth up spiraling towers in comparison to the constantly flipping and thrilling Green Lantern. Wicked Twister's got height, but Green Lantern wins my vote. +1 Six Flags Magic Mountain

Road Runner Express VS Woodstock Express: Far better comparison here, both being Vekoma kiddie's. Woodstock's taller, so it wins my vote. +1 Cedar Point

Ninja VS Iron Dragon: The only thing these two rides share in common is that they are Arrow Suspended coasters. Ninja's faster, more thrilling, and masterfully interacts with the surrounding area. +1 Six Flags Magic Mountain

Revolution VS Corkscrew: Revolution is far more unique, and the way it interacts with the terrain is especially cool at night. +1 Six Flags Magic Mountain

Riddler's Revenge VS Mantis: I've heard more complaints about Mantis, and since Riddler's a bit large and better themed, it gains the advantage. +1 Six Flags Magic Mountain

Magic Flyer: Another kiddie. And to Jeff's comment about a surplus in kiddie's, Six Flags can vie for whatever kiddie rides they can put up considering they severely lack quality attractions for the 12 yr.old and younger audience. +1 SFMM

Maverick: I simply cannot compare this to Scream, it's just far different. +1 Cedar Point

Scream!: Not comparable to Maverick, and I feel this deserves far more respect than it's given (the parking lot below really isn't that bad!) +1 SFMM

Viper VS Magnum: I know, Magnum doesn't go upside down, but they are both arrow classics. Magnum still has an edge. +1 Cedar Point

Tatsu: Simply the best flyer out there. +1 SFMM

X2 vs Gatekeeper: Though Gatekeeper will be a lovely addition to CP, until B&M gets the cars to flip upside down, X2 is just too awesome to defeat. +1 SFMM

Blue Streak: It appears SFMM has run out of woodies to compare, so Blue Streak automatically wins. +1 Cedar Point

Coaster Scores:
SFMM:10
Cedar Point:9

But, as Jeff pointed out, it is difficult to add kiddie coasters to the count, and whatmore, what Cedar Point lacks in coasters (if it does at all) it certainly makes up for in quality thrill rides, family rides, atmosphere, entertainment, cleanliness, etc.

From Jeff Elliott
Posted August 15, 2012 at 1:05 PM
I didn't know I had a "trademark style".....

From Bradley Keith
Posted August 15, 2012 at 2:02 PM
Russell, are you calling me a Cedar Point... Not getting in to that... I totally agree that SFMM is clearly ahead in the modern coaster department. However, Jeff brought up overall atmosphere. Any Six Flags park lacks about everything there. I doubt CP leaves the parking spaces when they build Gatekeeper. I could go on. Then again, it's about time they build a Gatekeeper type ride. Cedar Point seems to not give anything for wooden coasters. MM has quite the one in Apocalypse. Cedar Point desperately needs something good with lumber. In a few ways SF in general can seem cheap. Not with money. At MM they have countless kiddie coasters to have the coaster record. No matter how bad the Corkscrews and the Mean Streaks may be, they're better than kiddies. When SF wants something new, they turn the ad covered trains backwards. When CP wants something new (even though it might be 5 years) they build something that seems (so far) pretty good. Right now CP and MM are about even (to me.) If MM opens the Intamin thing, they'll go far ahead. I mean, FAR ahead. Right now I think they're tied, but not for long...

From Josh Morgra
Posted August 15, 2012 at 3:02 PM
Thank you all for responding but I really would appricate you not gettin to far ahead and just vote for the 3 coaster match ups for this week. Also please come back as the coaster play out. Make sur to cheack the disscusion bourd on August 18th for the results of the 3 matchups and the new set of match up.

From AJ Hummel
Posted August 15, 2012 at 4:01 PM
Keeping it to the original three match-ups...

Top Thrill Dragster vs. Superman:EFK : These two rides aren't all that similar, but I guess they are close enough. Anyway, Top Thrill Dragster is in my top ten list, and Superman doesn't even make my top twenty-five. Winner: Top Thrill Dragster

Corkscrew vs. Revolution: I think a better comparison would have been Corkscrew vs. Viper since they are both Arrow Custom Looping Coasters, but either way Corkscrew loses. It isn't too bad for roughness, but it is a fairly boring ride. Revolution is a bit rougher, but at least the ride is more than just the loop. Winner: Revolution

Mean Streak vs. Apocalypse: No comparison here. Mean Streak is a below average woodie, and Apocalypse is one of the best of it's type. Winner: Apocalypse

From Russell Meyer
Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:15 PM
I can't argue that the atmosphere at Cedar Point is far better than Magic Mountain. However, you're comparing the parks coasters head to head, and giving the edge to Cedar Point, which is a bit of a stretch. Not only does Magic Mountain have more coasters currently, but their best coasters are better than the best Cedar Point can offer. There's no doubt that these park are 1 and 2 (with SFGAdv a close 3rd) in the coaster wars, but right now, even giving Cedar Point credit for an unproven Gatekeeper, Magic Mountain has the lead when comparing the park's coasters.

And for those out there who are comparing coasters they have obviously never ridden, it's probably best to just stick to what you know.

From Bradley Keith
Posted August 15, 2012 at 6:50 PM
You're certainly right. Suppose I can be a CP homer sometimes. It'd be quite impressive to have ridden Gatekeeper. CP lacks a coaster like Scream or Apocalypse. It's the 3 Muskateers by Intamin that make the point even top 5. Maybe MM is a true #1. Magnum has some good airtime but the seats feel like a cage, not free at all. I've heard crap about Green Lantern but CP has no Zac Spin. X and Tatsu are unique. CP coasters used to be unique. Great Adventure is undisputedly 3rd, and some think it's even 2nd. I still love CP, and still think they're best, but it's not best for coasters. And much of my opinion is weighed on Gatekeeper. It could disappoint like Leviathan. As for the parks with best coasters completely (not like 5 kiddie coasters) Busch Gardens comes to mind. Sea world Orlando has 2 major coasters, but they're both terrific. In the 20th century Cedar Point blew minds. For the 12 years so far of the 21st, I'll admit it's all Magic Mountain. It's their time.

From Nick Markham
Posted August 15, 2012 at 8:16 PM
Josh, sorry for getting ahead of myself, couldn't resist.

And Jeff ™, it might just be me, but I think I see a TM by your name... ;D

From James Koehl
Posted August 16, 2012 at 2:44 AM
I've been encouraged to stand up for Cedar Point in this comparison of it to SFMM in the Coaster Wars (and risk being accused of being a fanboy, which I suppose is meant to be derogatory but really just means that I'm a fan of my local park (which I am) and a boy (well, I'm 55 but try to act younger). I have never been to SFMM, so I can't in good conscience compare the two parks. All I can do is give my review of CP in general and its coasters in particular.

In general, Cedar Point is a great family park which is working on improving its family options. It has four children specific areas, and if you look at the entire resort complex (including Soak City, Challenge Park and the mile-long Cedar Point beach) it has a lot for families to do together. The addition of Luminosity this year shows imho a renewed commitment to activities that the entire family can enjoy. And I have never seen or heard of a gang problem- lots of teens? Yes. I bring my two here often.

And I would challenge ANYONE to say that it doesn't have the most beautiful location for a park in the world. Driving across the causeway, and seeing the coasters, towers and domes of the park across Sandusky Bay still brings goosebumps to me after all these years.

Coasters. Nobody but a local can know the frustration that we feel that a park that called itself TRCCOTW (fill in the words) has gone so long without a new coaster. Gatekeeper gives us new hope for continued additions of state-of-the-art coasters. But we still love what we've got. That's not to say that we won't be the first to complain about what isn't right about them, but they're still ours to complain about and we'll still ride them because they are there. Not every coaster has to have the breathetaking moment when TTD launches you from zero to warp 2 (OK, I exagerate- it's only warp 1.5), or the never-let-you-catch-your-breathe non-stop inversions of Maverick. Some people like a more gentle ride like Iron Dragon- I usually just sit in the car and enjoy the mild swinging through the trees and over the lagoon. I used to love Mean Streak and its intense pounding roughness and the fact that it shook so hard I could barely see where I was. You didn't ride Mean Streak, you survived it. I don't know if it got rougher or I got older. I'll have to ride it a few more times this season to decide.

Does CP have a complete collection of coasters? No. But it has an amazing variety. Blue Streak is a classic, and this little woodie is probably my favorite. My only wish is that it was about 4 times longer- that would be 4 times more air time, and its air time is the best. Wicked Twister, Millenium Force, even the Mine Ride (which we use to threaten my son with when he misbehaves because he says it's boring) are all fun and exciting, and if SFMM has something better, good for them. Six Flags has not cornered the market on fun.

I guess I am a Cedar Point fanboy. I love that park, out in the middle of Lake Erie, surrounded by water and sand, with its rainbow of coasters and hundreds-feet-tall towers, hundred-year-old buildings, huge flocks of seagulls and enough coasters and other attractions- lots of other attractions- to keep this old Ride Warrior happy and busy for hopefully many years to come.

Cedar Point. Ride on!

From David L.
Posted August 16, 2012 at 3:36 AM
I can't say I've been to either park, but my outside look tends to favor Cedar Point. However, if anyone can compare the condition (landscaping, staff, trash) of SFMM to SFOG's in recent years that would be great.

From Mike Gallagher
Posted August 16, 2012 at 9:09 AM
Jim, good stuff. You've severely whetted my appetite for next month. I hope you're happy ;) This'll be my 8th or 10th (maybe even 9th!) visit to CP, and I ALWAYS get that feeling driving the causeway. Then again, I still have trouble sleeping the night before a Great Adventure sojourn, and I've been going there since 1974!

Speaking of GAdv, as a couple of folks did above, I'm not 100% sure I'd rank it 3rd. For me, they only have two top-tier coasters..Toro and Nitro. Kingda Ka is an experience any coaster-phile should have at least once, but Dragster is the superior ride. Batman remains very intense and a favorite of mine, but loses points for being way too short. I'm not entering the discussion at hand, since my only visit to Californy was as a 14 year old non-coaster enthusiast, and Magic Mountain was not on the itinerary (Disneyland was, though.)

From Russell Meyer
Posted August 16, 2012 at 8:00 AM
Mike:

I'd contest that SFGAdv only has 2 signature coasters...

Kingda Ka is still the record holder for height and the North American record holder for speed. It's essentially the same as Dragster with an amazing airtime hill tacked on the end. To me, it's 6 to 1 half dozen the other, but to say Dragster is far superior is pure folly. The only appreciable differences aside from the theming (if you recall Dragster's trains actually had to be de-themed a bit when it first opened) are the restraints and extra airtime hill on Kingda Ka. I personally HATE the Intamin t-bars and seat belts that keep guests with larger hips and mid-sections from being able to ride. I'm not affected by this, but others I know are, and it's simply rude to keep people from riding world class rides just because they're a little wider in the middle (I know people with 38" waists and around 200 lbs. that cannot squeeze into coasters with Intamin t-bars).

The rest of Great Adventure's collection is nothing to laugh at.

Medusa/Bizaro was the first floorless roller coaster in the world, and is still pretty decent. It's the same layout as Scream, but has theming and on-train audio (when it actually works right).

Green Lantern/formerly Chang at Kentucky Kingdom, is still one of the best stand-ups on the planet, and definitely better than Mantis.

Superman: Ultimate Flight is not the best flyer in the world, but it's not terrible, at least when you don't have to wait 2 hours to ride because of incompetent ride-ops.

Dark Knight is a solid attempt from Six Flags to actually inject theme into their parks. I still prefer Exterminator at Kennywood in terms of indoor spinning wild mouses, but it's certainly better than Wildcat was at Cedar Point.

Six Flags Great Adventure has the same pitfalls as Magic Mountain in terms of customer service and overall atmosphere, but just in terms of coasters, I think you're seriously underrating their lineup.

From Mike Gallagher
Posted August 16, 2012 at 8:35 AM
Russell: "I'd contest that SFGAdv only has 2 signature coasters..."

I never used the word "signature." I agree 100% that KK is their signature ride. That doesn't mean it's a great ride. El Toro, Nitro, Batman, and Bizarro rank way above KK for me. I used the phrase "top-tier" and KK does not come close to reaching that level for me.

Russell:"It's essentially the same as Dragster with an amazing airtime hill tacked on the end. To me, it's 6 to 1 half dozen the other, but to say Dragster is far superior is pure folly. The only appreciable differences aside from the theming (if you recall Dragster's trains actually had to be de-themed a bit when it first opened)"

I don't get deep into the reasons why I like one coaster over another. It's a feel, a vibe. I like the theming and trains on Dragster a lot, but I just know I have much more fun on it than KK.

Russell:"Medusa/Bizaro was the first floorless roller coaster in the world, and is still pretty decent. It's the same layout as Scream, but has theming and on-train audio (when it actually works right)"

I love Medusa/Bizarro. It's my third favorite ride in the park. As someone who's partly deaf, the on-ride audio is just white noise to me. But friends I ride with that have normal hearing have said the same thing. It could be a signature (there's that word again) ride if there weren't other floorless coasters, including one I like better (Dominator, despite the lack of theming)

Russell:"Green Lantern/formerly Chang at Kentucky Kingdom, is still one of the best stand-ups on the planet, and definitely better than Mantis."

Agreed, but that's what's known as a back-handed compliment. It rode better as Chang. And (almost) ANYTHING is better than Mantis.

Russell: "Superman: Ultimate Flight is not the best flyer in the world, but it's not terrible, at least when you don't have to wait 2 hours to ride because of incompetent ride-ops."

I agree. I prefer Vekoma flyers.

Russell:"Dark Knight is a solid attempt from Six Flags to actually inject theme into their parks. I still prefer Exterminator at Kennywood in terms of indoor spinning wild mouses, but it's certainly better than Wildcat was at Cedar Point."

Dark Knight is the most disappointing coaster I have ever been on, one of the most boring, and one of the least thrilling. And it cannot be compared to Exterminator (which I love) and Wildcat (meh.) Dark Knight is not a spinning Mouse and is not completely dark. Wildcat is/was not even a Mouse (thank you, Clement Moore!)

But opinions are like "you-know-whats." Everybody's got one, and that's why boards like this exist.

From Russell Meyer
Posted August 16, 2012 at 9:45 AM
"I agree. I prefer Vekoma flyers."

Wow, that pretty much says it all right there. The Flying Dutchman design is so bad there are only 3 in the world (2 clones, Batwing at SFA and Firehawk at KI, and the prototype, Nighthawk at PC) since its debut in 2000. You need to try Tatsu or Manta, the two best flying coasters in the world.

Dominator and Batman Knight Flight are probably the two most boring floorless coasters in the country. Dominator has that extra few feet of track at the beginning and end just so it can have the longest floorless record, and the "record-breaking loop" is not dramatically different than any other floorless loop. Dominator doesn't even have the best floorless inversion, a zero-g roll. Kraken, Medusa (west), Superman: Krypton Coaster, and Hydra run circles around Dominator, and Bizaro is a bit better than the Kings Dominion coaster with a dive loop and zero-g roll in addition to Dominator's list of just 5 inversions. I do like Dominator's finishing helix, but it doesn't even come close to being a top 5 floorless.

From Bradley Keith
Posted August 16, 2012 at 1:32 PM
I like Vekoma Flying Dutchmans! They have 360 degree loops. The reason there are so few is that the people at Paramount signed a deal with Vekoma to not build them elsewhere. I prefer B&M flyers but Dutchmen paved the way. I was once stuck on Firehawk for 45 minutes on the lift hill. Another time, Manta for 15. The Firehawk incident was much better. The B&M seats aren't comfortable when in the station or on the lift hill. If I was starting a park with a flyer, B&M is an obvious choice, but the Dutchmen are different to a point where they are very enjoyable.

From Mike Gallagher
Posted August 16, 2012 at 1:44 PM
I never heard of the Paramount exclusivity deal, but considering FireHawk was previously at Geauga Lake as X-Flight, and Paramount had no affiliation with Geauga, I'm not sure that agreement was as all-encompassing and exclusive as you indicate.

On a semi-related note, I have to say that for a while flyers freaked me out. The first time I rode one (Batwing) I had to sit down afterwards to put myself together. I was shaking, sweating, and the ride really seemed to mess with my mind and body. I was a wreck. Same thing happened on X-Flight, even to the point where a very nice female park employee stopped to ask if I was okay. Then, I made up my mind that I had to get over these feelings about flyers. So, on a day at Great Adventure, I rode Superman six times in a row. Now I actually like flyers a lot...except for the snail-like loading procedures.

From Bradley Keith
Posted August 16, 2012 at 6:22 PM
I was freaked out about Manta, my first flyer. I reacted about the same as you. And I was scared of my first stander, Vortex at Carowinds. Didn't react the same when I got off. More of a "What the heck was that?" As for the deal, it sort of fell through. Vekoma went and built two to rival the Paramount one, both at Six Flags parks. Batwing, and XFlight at the then Six Flags World's of Adventure. Paramount didn't take this too well, and didn't call Vekoma again (build another Vekoma) until Cedar Fair took over.

From Joey Till
Posted August 17, 2012 at 12:36 AM
Six Flags Magic Mountain's coasters are more modern, unique, and intense. Cedar Point has Top Thrill Dragster, Millenium Force, Maverick, and Magnum XL at the top of the lead for them. These are all great coasters at Cedar Point, and Might have the advantage over X2, (Mil Force atleast), but SFMM has a greater amount of good coasters.

Good coasters for SFMM: X2, Tatsu, Goliath, Riddler, Superman, Green lantern, Batman, Scream, Apacolypse, Colossus, and why not the Ninja which is much faster than Iron Dragon. TOTAL: 11 coasters

Good Coasters for Cedar Point: Magnum, Maverick, Mil Force, Top Thrill Dragster, Whicked Twister, Gemini, Blue Streak, Raptor,
TOTAL: 8

Magic Mountain's Coasters are superior. Even with Gatekeeper, SFMM is adding a brand new launched coaster also next year.

Magic Mountain I would say is prettier on the "Mountian" which can provide nice views. Yes Cedar Point is on a lake but you can't see it unless your on a coaster.

Cedar Point is much cleaner, though. Some parts of SFMM seemed kind of dirty and run down.

Cedar Point has more variety to their rides. They have twice as many flats as they do Coasters (how it should be). SFMM needs flat rides BAD.

Overall, SFMM is my favorite park, but Cedar Point seems to be more a traditional amusement park and seems to pride itself more. They are both close.
Thats my new verdict after spending two days at SFMM recently.

From jeff hansen
Posted August 17, 2012 at 1:34 PM
I have been to both parks numerous times and i wont rehash everything that has been said but if a ride breaks down at Six Flags Dont Bother waiting Leave, If a ride breaks down at Cedar Point DONT MOVE ! we wont discuss how in the past years all six flags maintenance departments have been cut by more than 65% (i know for a fact one park went from 18 full timers to 7) and as far as cleanliness, I was just at Cedar Point 2 weeks ago and i was standing near Gemini, I Counted 31 Trash cans in Sight of me, Does Six Flags even own 30 trash cans. "please keep the park clean, because my family comes here too" "have a heart, do your part, help keep the park clean" what it should say is "have a heart, do your part, we don't want to pay for janitors" also someone mentioned the age and type of person who attends the parks, S.F. is a Local Teenage oriented Ride Park, C.P. is a Family oriented Theme Park destination. hence Six Flags DOES Search your bags, C.P. DOES NOT!

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