"kingda ka just copied"
"six flags obviously copied"
"This is what you get when Six Flags goes for a record breaker. Over the Shoulders, and a few measly feet taller and barely faster."
"SFGA simply wanted to beat that record."
Yes these are actual quotes. I was fine with people bashing kdk(annoyed, irritated and eye rolling yes, but what can i say?I'm loyal to six flags)then I realized people must be bashing drop of doom (which i also love.) And i saw some of the most positive reviews ever. Arguably we could say that "The giant drop" was copied. Now you could argue "Well they are both made by Intamin so its not copying" Well, I'm going to argue that kingda ka was made by intamin and so was top thrill dragster. Do whats the difference? I mean, you all seem to also say SIX FLAGS is the copier here. They bought it from Intamin because they wanted to! If Rye Playland had bought it, you all would bash playland and SFGA would be just some amusement park.
I really had to get this out. It has been annoying me a little. Bye!
Kingda Ka is not a few feet taller, it is 36 feet taller than TTD, BTW.
Yeah, and it's even better than Cedar POINT!! ;)
I agree, though..Great Adventure is my home park, but CP outdoes it in every aspect, aside from the length of drive and Signature Coasters. Other than Millennium Force and Magnum, there's no coasters there that are top ten material for me. I haven't been on Gatekeeper.
Personally, the fact my best friend who never had troubles on kdk fainted on ttd.
Fun, huh?
Also, I have many problems w/ cedar point
1. A ride operator GROWLED at my six year old daughter and would have kicked us off the ride if an exceptionally nice lady also at the park hadn't stepped in saying that not every six year old knows how the use the safety restraints (and I was standing there helping her fix it to, which pissed me off even more)
2. Being such braggers- look at the website. "Best theme park in the world". Brag much?
But those are my personal problems.
Edit: My ten year old said that obviously none are better, and Hershey is better then both of them. I have to agree, because Six flags cartoon theme and cedar points...umm... braggy theme, we have the cutest park ever with a theme of THE BEST chocolate in the world, mixed with thrills. Everything is so themed down to the height requirements. Even the comet's first drop is called the chocolate drop.
It has the best of both worlds to. Again, an intamin propelled launch coaster. Stormrunner forever!
Anyway, I just prefer TTD. I've ridden both and I'd sacrifice 36 feet and 8 mph for lap bars any day. Kingda Ka is a pretty awesome coaster, and it's no copy of TTD because they're both Intamin and all, and not some Chinese loop screw knockoff for Arrow loop screws that are horrific. (See TPR's YouTube channel if you're curious). But the lap bars and the overall "originality" make me prefer TTD. If Kingda Ka was at some other place (not Cedar Fair or Six Flags) I'd maybe be more tolerant but I just hate Six Flags because even though they have some decent rides, they all have the same "county fair" feeling. They built Scream with temporary fences and didn't cover up the parking lot... They move around Boomerangs and such and treat them like they're something new and revolutionary... And they can't think of a better name for a lot of their coasters than "Goliath".
So I think Dragster is better... That's all. Hershey's a great park but it is hard to compare to CP and SFMM. I'm pretty surprised you had a bad experience at CP, I never have. And Cedar Point's braggy theme? They are the best park for roller coasters one reason being unlike Six Flags they have something called "History". If any Six Flags had a coaster like Blue Streak it would be in horrible shape. Look at Screechin Eagle at SFSTL. Cedar Point has some coaster "pioneers". With Six Flags their revolutionary rides are either a hit or a miss, and some... Big... Misses.
You mentioned injuries on TTD on your review of KK. Come on, no park can control that... And besides, count the injuries at any SF park compared to ones at CP. The accident was a problem with the launching system, same thing happened on Xcelerator and Storm Runner has also had some problems with it. *Gasp* Hershey isn't perfect either.
No Drop Rides copy each other because, well, there is only one way to make drop rides. They go up then down. The only differences between them is height, and S&S makes some that launch you, but Giant Drop and Lex Luthor aren't in that catagory. Here is a food analogy: Burger King didn't copy McDonalds because there is one way to make a burger. If they used the same ingredients they would have. Kingda Ka seemed to use... A lot... of the same ingredients as TTD.
No hard feelings, you have a good argument, but I have my preference, and you have yours. Welcome to the site!
Anyway, I just prefer TTD. I've ridden both and I'd sacrifice 36 feet and 8 mph for lap bars any day. Kingda Ka is a pretty awesome coaster, and it's no copy of TTD because they're both Intamin and all, and not some Chinese loop screw knockoff for Arrow loop screws that are horrific. (See TPR's YouTube channel if you're curious). But the lap bars and the overall "originality" make me prefer TTD. If Kingda Ka was at some other place (not Cedar Fair or Six Flags) I'd maybe be more tolerant but I just hate Six Flags because even though they have some decent rides, they all have the same "county fair" feeling. They built Scream with temporary fences and didn't cover up the parking lot... They move around Boomerangs and such and treat them like they're something new and revolutionary... And they can't think of a better name for a lot of their coasters than "Goliath".
So I think Dragster is better... That's all. Hershey's a great park but it is hard to compare to CP and SFMM. I'm pretty surprised you had a bad experience at CP, I never have. And Cedar Point's braggy theme? They are the best park for roller coasters one reason being unlike Six Flags they have something called "History". If any Six Flags had a coaster like Blue Streak it would be in horrible shape. Look at Screechin Eagle at SFSTL. Cedar Point has some coaster "pioneers". With Six Flags their revolutionary rides are either a hit or a miss, and some... Big... Misses.
You mentioned injuries on TTD on your review of KK. Come on, no park can control that... And besides, count the injuries at any SF park compared to ones at CP. The accident was a problem with the launching system, same thing happened on Xcelerator and Storm Runner has also had some problems with it. *Gasp* Hershey isn't perfect either.
No Drop Rides copy each other because, well, there is only one way to make drop rides. They go up then down. The only differences between them is height, and S&S makes some that launch you, but Giant Drop and Lex Luthor aren't in that catagory. Here is a food analogy: Burger King didn't copy McDonalds because there is one way to make a burger. If they used the same ingredients they would have. Kingda Ka seemed to use... A lot... of the same ingredients as TTD.
No hard feelings, you have a good argument, but I have my preference, and you have yours. Welcome to the site!
Gack! I feel like a jerk, LOL, sorry :(
I disagree with the country fair things. I mean, some coasters like say skull mountain (with out the mountain of course could be that but...)
Wait.
Wait just a second here.
Hold it.
Hooooold on a minute
:O but what about El Toro? You have to agree that is a thrill ride that's un...
un...
uncopyable?
Sorry it's been a long work day. Anyways...
I could understand calling something like adventureland country fairish but sf?
Okay.
Only thing that could make sf better in my opinion? Having rolling thunder race. honestly,I love the gemini and Lightning racer.
Oh yeah, Storm runner has had its problems but its still an excellent coaster ;)
Gack, I cant type anymore, I need to go take a nap. Think the kids will notice? Nope! To busy getting excited to go to playland on Saturday.
Ahhh, I just love my children.
Good bye/night yall!
Uh... Yeah I agree. El Toro is uncopyable if rides CAN be uncopyable, I mean, some park could always build an exact copy of any ride.
The most important thing I said would be how, well, no drop ride can be copied. There is strictly one way to make drop rides. Did Chevy copy Ford, creator of the first pickup truck? There's an argument they did but if Chevy made a truck without a truck bed it wouldn't be a truck.
My opinion is that if you think of a good idea it will be copied and you just have to accept it. Cedar Point has so many "worlds firsts". I can list them if you want. Six Flags typically (not always) thinks of BS records they make up themselves. Watch the "New for 2013 at Six Flags" video. It's like they're saying, "NEW AT SIX FLAGS! THE WORLDS FIRST BOOMERANG TO OPERATE IN MISSOURI! THE WORLDS TALLEST AND FASTEST BOOMERANG PAINTED GREEN WITH ORANGE SUPPORTS!" In reality it's one of over 50. Just moved from another park, and it's like 15 years old...
I'm not trying to start another battle... "Just sayin".
Also, while Six Flags has a history of letting maintenance lag on some coasters, they have gotten significantly better in recent years, and have a few classic woodies to their credit like Wild One (SFA), Collosus (SFMM), Thunderbolt (SFNE), and the recently revamped Texas Giant (SFoT), and Rattler (SFFT). If you're going to hold Blue Streak in such high regard, I would retort with Mean Streak, and throw a heaping pile of Beast (KI), Hurler (KD), Hercules (DP), and Son of Beast (KI) at you. Cedar Fair is just as bad as Six Flags at letting bad woodies rot, and Six Flags is just as good as Cedar Fair at preserving historic coasters.
Cedar Fair Parks have their fare share of customer service failures, and I feel that Six Flags is beginning to increase their level of goodwill with guests to close the perceived gap. Honestly, if SFMM and CP were right next to each other, I'd have a hard time deciding which one to visit if I could only go to one. I was actually really impressed with a recent visit to SFMM in February, and other Six Flags parks are slowly improving as well. The choice between the two is much like choosing between Coke and Pepsi, so there are always going to be situations like this where fans of one park battle with the fans of the other.
The argument could go on all day. It might seem like I am contradicting myself but I didn't mean Magic Mountain, mostly their other parks. Magic Mountain has everything Cedar Point has, it seems like. Not an exact same type of ride or whatever it is but its certainly hard to think about something the Point has and Magic Mountain absolutely has no answer for. Magic Mountain isn't like the other SF parks, it has a great setting and no muffleheads in June unlike Cedar Point. (Most of you probably don't know what that is).
I don't really think I have anything else to say.
Cedar Fair has...Cedar Point, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Valleyfair, Michigan Adventure, Dorney Park, Great America, Knott's Berry Farm, Canada's Wonderland, Carrowinds, and Worlds of Fun.
Six Flags has...Magic Mountain, Great Adventure, Great America, Over Texas, Over Georgia, Fiesta Texas, New England, America, La Ronde, Great Escape, Discovery Kingdom, Mexico, and St. Louis.
I've never been to Michigan Adventure, Valleyfair, Worlds of Fun, SFoT, La Ronde, Great Escape, Mexico, or St. Louis, but looking at the ones I have been to, they're pretty even in my book.
SFMM and CP are always going to draw comparisons, and the two are very even in my book. SFGAdv and Kings Island are pretty much the #2 parks in the respective chains, and I would probably give the nod to the New Jersey park, primarily because Kings Island is so close to Cedar Point that if given a choice when in Ohio, I'd drive another 2 hours to go to Cedar Point over Kings Island.
The #3 parks in each chain (Knotts and SFoT) are also pretty close, but I would reserve judgement since I've never been to SFoT, but have heard good reviews of that park over the past 3-5 years. Then you come to the next tier of parks where SFGA would be comperable to Kings Dominon, another wash in my book, and Carrowinds vs. SFNE which is another close one in my book. Dorney Park is easily ahead of Six Flags America, but Discovery Kingdom is far better than Great America.
So in my opinion, the 2 chains are very comparable, and with a steady improvement from Six Flags, has created a good competition.
Uh... Yeah I agree. El Toro is uncopyable if rides CAN be uncopyable, I mean, some park could always build an exact copy of any ride.
The most important thing I said would be how, well, no drop ride can be copied. There is strictly one way to make drop rides. Did Chevy copy Ford, creator of the first pickup truck? There's an argument they did but if Chevy made a truck without a truck bed it wouldn't be a truck.
My opinion is that if you think of a good idea it will be copied and you just have to accept it. Cedar Point has so many "worlds firsts". I can list them if you want. Six Flags typically (not always) thinks of BS records they make up themselves. Watch the "New for 2013 at Six Flags" video. It's like they're saying, "NEW AT SIX FLAGS! THE WORLDS FIRST BOOMERANG TO OPERATE IN MISSOURI! THE WORLDS TALLEST AND FASTEST BOOMERANG PAINTED GREEN WITH ORANGE SUPPORTS!" In reality it's one of over 50. Just moved from another park, and it's like 15 years old...
I'm not trying to start another battle... "Just sayin".
REPLY
--Gotcha. Well, sort of. My original point was people were flipping out. Again, they bought it for fun *shrugs* And that wasn't the best example because if they had the original, Off I and a lot of old thrill seekers go off at the speed of formula rossa (;) ;) yes, I love making coaster references! Kid/At/Heart)--
From Russell Meyer
Posted June 13, 2013 at 2:06 PM
I don't know...Six Flags Magic Mountain still has the world's first looping coaster (Revolution) and the first and still only 4-dimension coaster in North America (X2). They also have the first coaster to break the 100 MPH barrier (Superman), and the first 7-inversion coaster in the North America (Viper).
Also, while Six Flags has a history of letting maintenance lag on some coasters, they have gotten significantly better in recent years, and have a few classic woodies to their credit like Wild One (SFA), Collosus (SFMM), Thunderbolt (SFNE), and the recently revamped Texas Giant (SFoT), and Rattler (SFFT). If you're going to hold Blue Streak in such high regard, I would retort with Mean Streak, and throw a heaping pile of Beast (KI), Hurler (KD), Hercules (DP), and Son of Beast (KI) at you. Cedar Fair is just as bad as Six Flags at letting bad woodies rot, and Six Flags is just as good as Cedar Fair at preserving historic coasters.
Cedar Fair Parks have their fare share of customer service failures, and I feel that Six Flags is beginning to increase their level of goodwill with guests to close the perceived gap. Honestly, if SFMM and CP were right next to each other, I'd have a hard time deciding which one to visit if I could only go to one. I was actually really impressed with a recent visit to SFMM in February, and other Six Flags parks are slowly improving as well. The choice between the two is much like choosing between Coke and Pepsi, so there are always going to be situations like this where fans of one park battle with the fans of the other.
REPLY
--Agree completely.Good Coke/Pepsi reference. Coke all the way! Agreed especially with the maintenance for both :P
EDIT I loved son of beast. If I remember correctly KI is owned by cedar. That is one of 3 rides I like(now likeD):( I rode it with the loop and w/o--
From Bradley Keith
Posted June 13, 2013 at 8:00 PM
I guess you are right. You settled this one...
I still prefer CF but I agree with you saying it will never be settled. I think Great Adventure and Magic Mountain are right up there without a doubt. Some of their other parks not so much, yet. Cedar Fair has their forgotten parks too. It seems like both chains are so tied up with Cedar Point and Magic Mountain. 10 years ago or so I'd say Cedar Point was better than Magic Mountain but now it'd be ridiculous that they weren't at least even. Cedar Point builds a major ride every 4-5 years since Dragster and that seems like it is not enough to keep up (or at least take the lead). I'd take a B&M hyper over Arrow and Cedar Point has a horrible wooden coaster collection. I didn't mean to make Blue Streak sound so good, I just meant to say its in good shape.
The argument could go on all day. It might seem like I am contradicting myself but I didn't mean Magic Mountain, mostly their other parks. Magic Mountain has everything Cedar Point has, it seems like. Not an exact same type of ride or whatever it is but its certainly hard to think about something the Point has and Magic Mountain absolutely has no answer for. Magic Mountain isn't like the other SF parks, it has a great setting and no muffleheads in June unlike Cedar Point. (Most of you probably don't know what that is).
I don't really think I have anything else to say.
REPLY
--Thank you! That comment made my day. I personally(operative word there) think it should be slower though.--
From Russell Meyer
Posted June 14, 2013 at 7:18 AM
Well, let's look at their parks...
Cedar Fair has...Cedar Point, Kings Island, Kings Dominion, Valleyfair, Michigan Adventure, Dorney Park, Great America, Knott's Berry Farm, Canada's Wonderland, Carrowinds, and Worlds of Fun.
Six Flags has...Magic Mountain, Great Adventure, Great America, Over Texas, Over Georgia, Fiesta Texas, New England, America, La Ronde, Great Escape, Discovery Kingdom, Mexico, and St. Louis.
I've never been to Michigan Adventure, Valleyfair, Worlds of Fun, SFoT, La Ronde, Great Escape, Mexico, or St. Louis, but looking at the ones I have been to, they're pretty even in my book.
SFMM and CP are always going to draw comparisons, and the two are very even in my book. SFGAdv and Kings Island are pretty much the #2 parks in the respective chains, and I would probably give the nod to the New Jersey park, primarily because Kings Island is so close to Cedar Point that if given a choice when in Ohio, I'd drive another 2 hours to go to Cedar Point over Kings Island.
The #3 parks in each chain (Knotts and SFoT) are also pretty close, but I would reserve judgement since I've never been to SFoT, but have heard good reviews of that park over the past 3-5 years. Then you come to the next tier of parks where SFGA would be comperable to Kings Dominon, another wash in my book, and Carrowinds vs. SFNE which is another close one in my book. Dorney Park is easily ahead of Six Flags America, but Discovery Kingdom is far better than Great America.
So in my opinion, the 2 chains are very comparable, and with a steady improvement from Six Flags, has created a good competition.
REPLY
--Thank you! And yes they have.--
I used to be outraged that all these coasters overseas were taking the speed record (there were 2) because they seemed so weak. It seemed like the launch would be the only good part. It turns out KK is just the same. It's already been said- it just flies over the top unlike TTD which feels like an almost rollback every time. This is what you get when Six Flags goes for a record breaker. Over the Shoulders, and a few measle feet taller and barely faster. I hate on Six Flags a lot. A few coasters at each park are good but not the ones that get all the hype when they first open
REPLY
-- I hate rollbacks. My sister wouldn't ride ttd when we went. It rolled back half the time!
Never... never again...yea, it rolled back. Personally, I think its rarer to go over the top ;|
As for all the records, firsts...etc, marketing is an effective thing, as evidenced by the passion of the fans. Being the first, fastest, highest...etc doesn't matter a whole lot if the ride sucks or is unreliable. Ka ran sporadically at best it's first year. Dragster had it's own issues for the first couple of months before being dialed in. Nowadays the Dragster rollbacks are because of wind gusts off the lake that sway the tower.
I'll still take Cedar Point, even though Magic Mountain has improved remarkably over the past few years and has a comparable ride lineup. There's more to CP than just coasters.
As for all the records, firsts...etc, marketing is an effective thing, as evidenced by the passion of the fans. Being the first, fastest, highest...etc doesn't matter a whole lot if the ride sucks or is unreliable. Ka ran sporadically at best it's first year. Dragster had it's own issues for the first couple of months before being dialed in. Nowadays the Dragster rollbacks are because of wind gusts off the lake that sway the tower.
I'll still take Cedar Point, even though Magic Mountain has improved remarkably over the past few years and has a comparable ride lineup. There's more to CP than just coasters.
REPLY
-- It isn't copying. They were made both bye Intamin :/
Thanks for explaining the rollbacks!--
Just because KK and TTD were made by Intamin doesn't make KK a copy? We've agreed that SF isn't out there to steal cedar fair's ride ideas but, here is ANOTHER analogy: Let's say you moved into a brand new house, that you built. (Not literally you built but you know what I mean). Then somebody buys a lot next door to build a house. They look at your new house and are like, that's a nice house! They contact the construction company and use the same plans, maybe making a few differences like roof shingles color and other things like that. Maybe it's 30 feet taller! Maybe the driveway has a little hill at the end. You follow me?
If you ask me, just because they're both Intamin doesn't mean they are not at all copied in any way.
Just because KK and TTD were made by Intamin doesn't make KK a copy? We've agreed that SF isn't out there to steal cedar fair's ride ideas but, here is ANOTHER analogy: Let's say you moved into a brand new house, that you built. (Not literally you built but you know what I mean). Then somebody buys a lot next door to build a house. They look at your new house and are like, that's a nice house! They contact the construction company and use the same plans, maybe making a few differences like roof shingles color and other things like that. Maybe it's 30 feet taller! Maybe the driveway has a little hill at the end. You follow me?
If you ask me, just because they're both Intamin doesn't mean they are not at all copied in any way.
-Reply-
--Difference. You said that you built it which probably meant YOU designed it. Then your neighbors took the idea which would be a different company. Sure, the same construction company built it but it was YOUR plans. Intamin created the plans and made a few of these. Get it now?:)
