My family and I had just made it on to "The Cat in the Hat" dark ride, when the ride shut down. We sat in our vehicle at the loading station for about three or four minutes until Universal's employees began evacuating the ride, and leading everyone out of the building. In that time, I watched the attraction personnel at Cat in the Hat as they chatted with guests, talked with one another and worked the phones, as theme park attraction employees do when their ride shuts down unexpectedly.
And I thought to myself that this crew was doing a fine job, and why is it that so many Disney fans are so insistent that Universal employees are inferior and don't have the "magic" that their Disney counterparts possess? Then I noticed the obvious difference.
The attraction employees at Cat in the Hat were black.
So I started looking around. And I found in one morning more African-Americans working attraction jobs at Universal Orlando than I recall seeing in years working at and visiting Disney World theme parks.
So why should this make a difference? It shouldn't. But human beings often see what their experience, teaching or lifelong bias leads them to see. A white theme park guest might look at two white attraction employees doing exactly what the Cat in the Hat workers were doing and think to themselves, "there are two fine employees, chatting with guests and doing their jobs." But if those employees are black, then the guest might instead notice only the employees talking with one another, and think that the employees were neglecting their guests and their jobs.
Same actions, same situation. But the observer notices only the part of the action that confirms his already-decided belief.
Try it yourself sometime. If you are white, take a moment in the grocery check-out line, coffee shop counter or shopping mall to imagine that the white person waiting on you was black. Notice if they do anything that would have made you think badly about them or the job they were doing. Would you have noticed it, or felt as angered by it, had you not been pretending they weren't white? It's a tough test for any conscientious person to take.
Few people will admit to thinking racist thoughts. But plenty of people, in America and around the world, demonstrate this kind of subconscious hostility toward people of other races. And that's why I believe that Universal's apparent success in hiring and assigning African Americans in attraction jobs might be leading some theme park fans to think less of Universal's theme parks.
It's not like kids didn't grow up with characters like the Cat in the Hat, Spider-Man, Curious George, Popeye and Barney. So you can't attribute a disdain for Universal to a lack of familiarity with the park's characters. And it's not as if Universal doesn't create popular rides. Yes, the power of Disney's brand name is strong. But I think it is naive to dispute that the color of the faces greeting guests does not color the opinion that some of those guests have toward these companies.
Disney understands the importance of appearances. When I hired on with Disney World's attractions department in 1988, a supervisor told me that my then-lanky frame, freckled face and reddish-brown hair made me a sure choice to work Tom Sawyer's Island -- the attraction where I was then assigned. Disney calls its hiring process "casting" for a reason. It doesn't merely hire people and assign them on the basis of demonstrated skill. The company "casts" them, as it would a movie, placing employees into "roles," where appearance, and race, come into play.
I haven't worked for Disney since 1991. And as an outsider, I can't speak to what its hiring and casting policies are today. But when I worked there, I worked with far fewer African-Americans in Magic Kingdom Attractions than I saw working at Islands of Adventure last week. The two blacks who worked Big Thunder Mountain with me, for example, each February would stagger their positions in the rotation so that one of them would always be "on stage" on the platform at all times during Black History Month. The rest of the year, however, it would not be uncommon to walk through the west side of the Magic Kingdom and not see a single African-American attraction employee.
Disney has changed its attitude toward casting over the years. At one time, you didn't see men working attractions like Disneyland's Storybook Land, or women working the Jungle Cruise. You do today. But, at least on the basis of one person's recent visit, it appears that Disney has not been as aggressive about assigning African-Americans into attractions jobs as Universal Orlando has.
So let's put it to the test. If I were the assignment editor at a major publication in the Orlando area (...cough...), I'd send a team of reporters into the parks and ask them to look around. Put one reporter into each "land," and have them record the attractions cast members they see and their races. You'd need to do it twice, once during the week and another time on a weekend, to make sure you've seen both the full-time and part-time crews. And I'd go in the afternoon, to try and catch people from both the opening and closing shifts.
Of course, I don't have such a reporting staff at my disposal. But Theme Park Insider does have its readers. So I'm asking you to jot down a few notes next time you are visiting an Orlando theme park. Report here how many people of color you see working the attractions at Disney and Universal. That way, we can test my impression that Universal's assigning more African-Americans to attractions jobs than Disney. As always, employees and representatives of Disney and Universal are welcome to post. If you are a registered user would like to protect your anonymity, please log out and post anonymously. Or e-mail me with your private thoughts.
More important, please take a few moments and try the test I described above. Think about *your* reactions to people of different races. I hope that you'll join me in wishing that more people around the world would find the magic in faces of a different color.
This is a topic that has come up quite frequently lately here in the Sacramento area. Called America's most diverse city (by Time magazine, I think), our diversity is pointed out often, and usually in such a fashion as this. Our prominent news anchors are as diverse as the city, which is not something I have seen when I visit other LARGER cities.
As for me, I have a diverse cast of friends and I work in a place where I am often in the minority. But who cares? As such a diverse culture, most of us are simply used to being around other races and ethnicities and don't think about it.
But then we do have our problem people. A couple of bible-thumping jerkwads killed a gay couple and firebombed a Jewish temple and most of us were outraged.
But that is an extreme example. There are plenty here who are just ignorant and refuse to understand other cultures. Like the white guy ahead of me at DMV who bitched about two Vietnamese guys requesting a test in their own language.
Gay people have "bigotry" and "homophobia" which differentiate between the two levels of problems they face. For racial or cultural problems we have "bigotry" or "racism" which are basically the same. Of course there is "xenophobia" but that word has practically become extinct.
But why? It does seem to be a major problem with many white Americans. The term "ugly Americans" comes from the atrocious way many traveling Americans treat people in the countries they are visiting. And those people don't even need to have any pigment to their skin! Germans, Britons, Spaniards, they can all be targets of our inability to deal with cultures that we don't deal with on a daily basis.
And this is something I DO see often with the way blacks are treated. Many non-racist whites still fear blacks simply because many don't understand them. Black people, like most minorities, are far more cliquish than white Americans, and that apparently scares some of them. Yes, it's stupid, but it does happen.
And that may be happening here. Many WDW tourists do come from the midwest, which isn't nearly as diverse as the South or California. Yes, they have big cities there too, but millions of people don't come from big cities. And I am positive some of those people do have problems relating to non-whites. I do believe that most people claim to have problems with Universal simply because they are Disney Dorks. But I have personally seen white people be less comfortable around blacks so I am sure some of this is happening also.
I happen to be a proud "Disney Dork" (thanks, Kevin), and have used the term Magic in at least two postings on this site while talking about Disney. While we may all have our different definitions, "Disney Magic" means to me memories of going to the parks with my family as a kid. It means planning future trips with my family. It means escaping with the one I love for a few days to a place where we can have romance, excitement, laughter.
Disney Magic is summed up in "the walk." When you turn the corner onto Main Street in the MK and see that long stretch of road, the shops on either side, and Cinderella's Castle looming in the horizon.
Disney Magic, to me, has nothing to do with whether or not the guy that checks my lap bar at Space Mountain is of my same race.
(By the way, this is coming to you fromsomeone who is 100% Hispanic. The name Joe is a nickname for Jose.)
However, you can't fault Robert for bringing this question up. The idea that a certain group of guests would have an adverse reaction to seeing employees (at either WDW or UO) of a different race is totally conceivable.
But I would have to say that, while Robert's question is a fair one based on his observations, the idea of "Disney Magic" has nothing to do with race. It has to do with... well... magic.
First, of course no one's going to come back from a vacation and complain about the color of a theme park's cast members. Save a for a handful of wackos, even the hard-core racists in America aren't that overt. I'm talking about something far more subtle, even subconscious, here. It's the way we're conditioned to react to people of different color. Some of us aren't conditioned to react that way. But many of us are. And I think that's worth examining. Because if we don't this problem of racism in society is never going to get better.
Second, for those who don't think this is an appropriate topic for this site: Tough. If a Disney theme park does have a significantly lower percentage of minorities working in attraction positions than a non-Disney park, that's newsworthy. And if that is due to a conscious decision by Disney to cast its positions in that way, it is a page one story.
That said, I don't blame Disney for casting. It was a great idea in 1955 as a way to show guests that they were part of a production, and not just visiting a gussied-up carnival. Believe me, if Walt had opened Disneyland with a sea of diverse faces working there, the park wouldn't have lasted the year. But society's changed. Many, perhaps most, people accept diversity now. So I believe a theme park can open up its casting guidelines and work to put more people of color into various attraction positions, as Disney did with gender roles 10 or so years ago.
It's the fact that some people prefer seeing white faces in the parks that troubles me more. I created this thread in the hope that maybe I could get a few readers to think about how they react to people of different color, and perhaps change their attitudes a bit.
Yes, I'm making an assumption about people's reactions here. And as one reader's suggested, the "bias" that some people have toward Disney and against Universal has nothing to do with race, but with brand name or an individual's lifelong tradition of going to a specific park. But, again, I think that it is naive to dismiss altogether the idea that the color of the faces encountered in one park versus another is coloring the way some guests feel, consciously or not, about those parks.
I want all guests to think about that -- consciously, for a change. And that's why I started this discussion.
I suppose you believe that the reason California Adventure is lacking "magic" is because Disney populated it entirely with minority cast members? And that if Disney filled the park with white cast members, the park would become magical and turn into a huge success?
And maybe you think the reason more and more Disney fans are becoming disillusioned in recent years, feeling that the Disney Company has lost the "magic", is because of a push to hire more minorities?
I believe that no one can define, categorize, explain, understand, or control "Magic". For if we could, would it not cease to be magical?
- Joy
Finally, you are twisting my piece into the opposite of its intent. I'm not saying that the push to hire more minorities is bad. I'm wondering if another company -- Universal -- is failing to gain support because it apparently has been so successful in doing the right thing. And, if that is the case, it is not Universal's fault. It is the public's.
According to psych. research, racism is evident in every single human being irregardless of race. Meaning, African Americans are found to be just as racist as caucasians, as Hispanics, etc. Because, racism (i.e., factoring race into how one understands another human) is a useful cognitive heuristic. It allows a person to make certain cognitive shortcuts for predicting how another will behave. This is also called stereotyping. All of the things are natural and normal. Problems come with prejudice, passing judgment or value upon one person based heavily on their race. It is not that only bigots have preconceived ideas about other races. And, I have heard the "well I have plenty of _______ (black, white, hispanic, etc.) friends therefore I am immune to universal human tendencies" argument. We are talking about an unconscious impact here on how we perceive other human beings. One does an extreme disservice by pretending to be superhuman.
The Magic Kingdom is so "magical" because it attempts to activate one's sense of being both at home and in a fantasy. So, it pulls up old images from childhood (fairies, princesses and princes, dragons, cartoon characters, choo-choo trains, etc.). How many fairy tales and childhood tales involve African American themes? Not many. Would Disney take advantage of stereotyping to achieve their goals? Would Disney place the majority of it's African American CMs in Animal Kingdom because it taps into more African themes? You betcha they would - money is still the bottom line. Both Disney and Universal spend extra money designing and producing new "constumes" or uniforms to where in the different areas (i.e., in Suess land they where Dr. Suess like uniforms). Therefore, the theme parks know that appearance is more then just wearing a clean shirt.
However, I am not convinced that Universal employs more African Americans and/or other minority groups. I would be more likely to believe places all of it's minority groups in "matching" themes. For example, African Americans to Animal Kingdom, Hispanics to Coronado Resort, etc. While Universal does not have culturally themed areas. Show me the stats.
Mike Adams
I think that it is time for us as a society to be able to converse openly and freely about such issues as racism, sexism, and all the other "isms." Why is it that as soon as an "ism" comes up everyone is immediately on the defensive?
Is it because we don't want to be perceived as either for or against that "ism" as the case may be? Is it because we don't feel comfortable talking about it? Is it because we don't think we know enough about it?
Or maybe, could it be that this topic has struck a chord, rightly or wrongly, in us. That in Robert's question, we have looked deep inside ourselves and said "yeah...I do sometimes perceive people's actions differently because of their race."
Instead of condemning Robert for bringing this subject up, perhaps we should stop and think about the subject, and whether there might be the slightest shred of truth to it.
And keep in mind racism isn't just white against black, latin, or asian...it can also be the other way around. I have been a victim of "reverse racism" as it's called, and I can empathize with those who suffer racism. Can I ever know what people of african, latin, asian, and aboriginal descent go through every day? No. But I do know how demeaning it can be, and I only suffered one episode.
Now, as far as the race of the IOA employees playing a factor when people are evaluating their level of satisfaction with a park, I think that’s a stretch. There are still many racist people of all ethnic groups in this country, but I believe that the vast majority of people are not going to be greatly influenced by the racial mix of the cast members at the parks. Does it have an effect? Probably, but it shouldn’t be significant.
A far greater effect on customer satisfaction is the “magic” that many people feel when they go to a Disney park which is due to a phenomenon that I call the “Honda Effect.” Let me explain. When it comes to cars, Hondas are perceived as being of superior quality than comparable Japanese and American brands. Whether that perception is true or not is immaterial. A Honda owner is going to automatically assume that they are more satisfied than other car owners because they own a Honda. If they have a problem, then they must have that rare Honda which actually has a problem. In other words, they alter their perceptions to fit their expectations regardless of the reality of the situation. Are Hondas good cars? Yes. Are Hondas superior to comparable Japanese and American brands? From my experience, I’d have to say that they aren’t. (Want to see my point illustrated? Watch the response of Honda owners to those last comments.)
Now when it comes to Disney, most people experience the Honda Effect. They are at Disney. It is “the happiest place on earth.” (Forgive me if I misquote.) Therefore they should experience the “magic.” If they don’t, then it is not Disney’s fault that they don’t feel the “magic.” It is either their fault or they have had one of those rare experiences where Disney failed to meet their expectations. They’ll cut Disney some slack and assume that they will feel the “magic” on a future visit when conditions are different.
The Honda Effect also works in reverse. Because we are supposed to feel the “magic” at Disney, we are not supposed to feel the “magic” anywhere else. (Only so much magic to go around, ya know, and we can’t be spreading that magic too thin.) To justify our “magical” feelings about Disney, we tend to cast a critical eye on the operation and appearance of other parks when we visit them. Not that we don’t enjoy ourselves, but we have to find some reason to justify our feelings about Disney. Thus we tend to be unfairly critical of Disney’s competitors. (At least some of us are. Some of us also get a little overboard in our defense of IOA and our criticism of Disney – me included.)
I think what Disney fans think of as their "magic" is the Disney animated films. A good deal of the attractions at Disney are based on the Disney animated films which feature, cute, singing animals, aliens, trees, household appliances, Dinosaurs, etc. I think it's inherently easier to theme an attraction around an animated film than it is a live action film, as Universal mostly does.
I think it's easier because in animation, everything is straight out of the imagination, it's all art because it is all illustrated. They can make every prop in their animated films look unique with it's own unique style. Everything in a Disney animated film has it's own unique look. So I think when they theme their attractions, it's easier to make them all stand out because of this; even down to the tiniest detail
When you look at two of Universal's better attractions, Cat in the Hat and Ripsaw Falls certainly come to mind. Ripsaw to a lesser extent, I think, because the characters are not as well known.
I think for some non "Disney Dorks", like me, it's irritating because most of the Disney animated films are so childish and they hardly ever live up to what we, as adults would like to see in a fantasy film.
This is one of the reasons why I would really like to see Universal produce some more animated films, or at least continue their relationship with Dreamworks. Shrek is going to be a hugely popular attraction, not just because it was a popular movie with kids and adults, but because it's an animated film and they are easier to translate into theme park attractions.
They just don't have to worry about looking "real" or boring. But in my opinion this is what really has been hurting Disney. I wish they would make more realistic animated films. Then they could really compete with the likes of Star Wars or Lord of the Rings which are believeable, high imagination films that are live action and have as much appeal to adults as they do to children, if not slightly more.
Even though I despise most of the films they are based on, I still have to marvel everytime I walk into a themed qeue line at Disney. And I finally figured out it was because they were based on animated films.
Now, back on the race issue. I want to ask something, are the majority of people who visit Orlando from other nations, white, hispanic, african, asian or what? This is always something we have to keep in mind when visiting theme parks in Orlando. They mainly are thinking about their foreign customers right? So they might reason that if a larger number of tourists from other nations are white or hispanic, then they might prefer to be greeted by people who look like them.
From my observations, most foreign guests seem to be European, but I don't have the facts. Certainly asians could outnumber them.
I don't know how ethnically diverse some of these nations are. I don't think most of them are as diverse as we are though. Many of their customs might seem strange to us. Maybe this is what Disney is thinking of when they hire?
That said, I hope some folks will take up me on doing some research on this, and do a "head count" of employees the next time they are in the WDW and UO parks. I hestitated to bring this subject up because I didn't have more than two days' worth of data to back up my hypothesis. But I figured that the network of TPI readers would be better able to collect this information than I could on my own.
And thanks, again, to everyone who takes a moment to write something thoughtful about this topic, rather than getting hysterical about it.
In fact, something that should be noted is that WDW has hardly any black people in it EVER. Including tourists. About 20% - 30% is foreign (mostly white people) so about 70% - 80% are Americans. So here is another question:
Does the serious lack of a black workforce in the WDW parks keep black families away from the parks?
I actually asked a black couple if the lily-whiteness of the parks bothered them last time I was in Epcot. They didn't come out and say it did, but they definitely didn't act as if they hadn't noticed. Now we white people may sometimes not notice when we go somewhere and minorities aren't present, but those minorities almost always notice when there are no others like them present.
On the other side of the coin, there are definitely white people who notice when ANY minority is present. It doesn't make them racist, but any level of uncomfortability will definitely affect how they think about their vacation. How much depends on each person.
Can we PLEASE not go down the boring "Oh Disney has magic cuz of this and Universal doesn't becuz of this!" GARBAGE. That is NOT the point of this thread. The "Black Magic" stuff is a bit of a misnomer here. When people refer to Disney "magic" they rarely refer to the CMs as being "magical." It is the theming, the immersion, that most people are referring to and Robert's clever little "Black Magic" title shouldn't be confused with the topic here.
Some people are constantly droning on about how great Disney employees are and how lousy Universal employees are. Robert laid out a possible reason for this, which is more than most of the automatons saying it have ever done.
It was very clear what Mr Niles was insinuating, Robert. That Disney fans like Disney because there are fewer african americans working there.
You seem to be calling everyone racist who disagrees with you saying that Disney fans like Disney because they're racists. I offered my opinion about what Disney "magic" is and Im told it's off topic, LOL.
Well if you didn't want people to talk about how they don't think Disney magic is "a bunch of white racists", then maybe you should have not tried to tie your "lack of minority CM's" into a story about Disney Magic.
Undoubtedly I will be called an ignorant racist for disagreing with you calling Disney fans racist, then putting people down for disagreeing and offering their opinion of what they think magic is.
Sooooo, I will once again state that I do endorse the "racism discussion" and the "lack of black CM discussions" but I do object to you insinuating that all Disney fans are racists.
You *can* take important issues too far. I think Mr Niles was attempting to write a thought provoking article but I think perhaps it was just poorly written.
I mean, I don't understand people who don't like Universal either. And yes, social structures are complex and racism, reverse racism, and the guilt of white liberals are factor in our society. I don't think anyone was denying this.
But you *are* villyfying Disney fans. But again, I don't know why I'm bothering even disagreeing since Baxter will undoubtedly call everything I said stupid and racist.
I liked this site for it's "pro Universal stance" but you *can* take things too far. I'm sure Mr Niles was trying to make a valid point, and I think he had the best of intentions. But you come across as way too heavy handed, imo. Or at least Baxter winds up making it look that way in the discussion forum.
--peace out
I stopped coming here for a few months because I couldn't take it anymore. And now this site has turned into another anti war site, when it should be about theme parks. Baxter was forcing his theme park opinions down people's throats before, and now hes forcing his politics down their throats too. But, hey, it's his and his buddy's website, so it's his perogative.
I just hope you guys don't do too much damage to this site with your extreme southern californian politics, because people don't come here for that. But maybe they will.
I enjoyed reading your articles but I can only take so much. I'm not trying to personally attack anyone, but geez!
--whatever
Now THAT was an attack.
I said no such thing. In fact, I took great care to make clear that I wasn't saying that. Yet you fall back on straw man and composition fallacies to discredit my comments.
I must admit that with all the responses that have gone off topic, I've lost what the point is as well. So I'm not claiming that I'm staying on topic either.
Even though Kevin said that Disney Magic was not the point of the thread, one of the first questions asked by Mr. Niles was "What is this Magic?” Which led into his point about how race may or may not affect your perception of a certain park. I've never thought of it that way, and even though it’s an interesting point I don’t think I could see it that way. What I do notice is when a CM (or employee) does that little extra thing to make a difference, regardless of their race. I disagree with what Kevin said about CMs not being referred to as "magical". I feel that they have a big part in the Magic. That's going back to what someone said about Disney casting every CM in the right role. I don't think you can have a more racially diverse park than Epcot, but it was planned that way. Same thing with Africa in AK.
Universal does have magic of its own. I see and feel it more and more. And a lot of it comes from the employees. Like the guys working MIB were "in character" and joking around and it added to the fun of the ride. But I couldn't tell you what color they were. I was excited on my last Universal trip when I noticed more of that little extra something that makes it magic for me. Like someone said, maybe in many years UO will cause the nostalgia that WDW does.
I understand perfectly why it's hard to explain the magic of WDW. I'm a proud "Disney Dork" and, like so many have said, it goes back to my childhood, princesses and villains, Main Street, etc.
I really hope that racism (consciously or sub-consciously) does not prevent someone from feeling the magic.
Wherever that magic might be.
As for my "attacks"... if some people are going to consider those attacks, then that is on them and their very thin skins. "And don't give me that Animal Kingdom stuff." is an attack? In which friggin' solar system is that an attack??? Beyond the fact that it isn't an attack, my POINT was that a company can put all their minorities in one place but it doesn't make it right, does it? If all of Denny's black employees worked only in Detroit, would that NOT be worthy of mention?
As for the whole "boring Disney magic" crap... there are already threads about that. This thread is not about why anyone thinks Disney is magical and Universal is not. This thread is about whether Walt Disney World is more beloved BY SOME PEOPLE because it is practically WHITE Disney World. Furthermore, I clearly said that SOME people were automotons and would drone on and on. Anyone that has been on TPI for any length of time knows I want statements like that BACKED UP. And some people here have backed theirs up. But this isn't the thread for it!
(There is a LONG thread about the lies that Disney Dorks say about Universal on here. There are also plenty of threads on here about what makes Disney so special. And there is a great thread as to what the difference between a Disney Dork and a Disney Fan is. I would suggest people find that and read it before they proudly call themselves Disney Dorks... it ISN'T a compliment. I would link them here, but right now Robert's search engine isn't finding news threads.)
P.S. Sorry about Anoymonous postings Im registering right after this.
I have see the double standards they have on the Dis for regarding non white members. It's not a shock to me or others who have experienced this. It seems to me the DIS Webmasters and moderators have huge ORGIE BANG BANG fest going on with the blond airhead huggie posters.
WHite posters run that board hands down.
I know that I no longer feel comfortable posting here--although my identity is probably easily trackable through my ip, I felt that posting anonymously would at least keep me from being constantly attacked; I felt that posting anonymously would allow readers to judge the truth of my argument rather than being prejudiced as to who I am.
Anyway, on to the topic--why was this thread created? Why are questions of Disney's magic being mixed with racism? Is it just to put a bad flavor in our mouths about Disney?
I read some earlier comments about this, but why DON'T we just have a thread about what makes Disney magical (without discussions of racism)? Wouldn't that be productive in gelling our thoughts about what Disney needs to reclaim the magic it's lost in recent years?
Why did we need a thread on racism anyway--I'm not saying we shouldn't discuss race (it's important to discuss), but all this thread has proven is that people, despite our efforts to fight it, are prejudiced--we can strive to overcome our prejudices, but we all carry them; for instance, some people immediately think pro-Disney comments are the work of mindless Disney dorks. But this thread didn't teach us that...it was something we already knew.
I also wonder if the creator of this thread (whom I respect very much--I respect Kevin too...I think he's a great resource here) was being a tad oversensitive about this racism at Disney...after all, he's notorious for disliking Disney's Peter Pan's Flight for its racist depicitions of Native Americans.
Forgive me if I made the erroneous assumption that you were the same person. DUHH!! What was I thinking?
As for me calling anyone pro-Disney a Disney Dork.... I have explained this over and over, and won't bother again, since it is the same EXACT person making the complaint again. (No, I didn't need your IP, FC, your baseless complaint hasn't gone away, even though your name has.) I am not "hostile" to people unless I feel they deserve it.
Like T Holland. Maybe it seemed too subtle to some of you, but he was clearly anti-Universal/pro-Disney, and hoping that stance on these boards would get him BACK his job as an Imagineer. And he decided to use lies and exaggerations to prove his love to the company he wanted to work for. I tried to have a civil discussion and all I got was hostility IN MY DIRECTION. Then I backed up my argument with actual facts and he tucked in his tail and whimpered away. But some people wanted desperately to believe him, so I was seen as the bad guy. If that is the type of behavior you all admire, then admire on. I don't have to agree with it. But just because I don't agree, doesn't mean I am hostile either. So there, pblthplblppblthth!
"I used to think that you just willfully misunderstood arguments that you didn't agree with. Now I just think you have a severe learning disability that keeps you from understanding most of what doesn't come directly from your head."
How could I read a statement like that as hostile?
Okay, okay, maybe it's unfair to air out some dirty laundry, but I'm just trying to make the point that as much as I respect you as a resource here, you do tend to get overzealous to the point of being offensive at times, especially when people don't agree with you.
Listen a bit--more than one person has already admitted to being offended by you. And not on just this message thread...as the saying goes, 'where there's smoke...'
P.S.--To be fair to you, however, I looked back at that debate you had with T. Holland; T. Holland actually did insult you first (he called you a "Back Peddler")--so, in this case, you stand vindicated. Although, I have to admit, I missed the "subtle" fact(?) that he was an Imagineer trying to get his job back; it must have been too deep for my simple mind to grasp. ;)
--FC
But,Its also been documented that Universal Orlando,as well as many theme park chains, runs a summer program to bring in underpriveledged youth from the community to work for them during the season. In fact, empowerment programs such as this not only give these youth the tools they need to work well, but they also give them a deserved sense of self.
I will give disney credit where its due in the fact they run a large international summer program,which brings people from countries worldwide to work in the park. I do think,howerver, that the company needs to start actively bringing in more of the local youth,like universal, and place them throughout the parks and not just stick them in "Animal Kingdom"
And with that, let's all say bye-bye to this thread.
