Is the 'Coaster War' Going Too Far?

Are parks like Six Flags Magic Mountain and Cedar Point going too far in trying to maintain their "most coasters in a single park" status?

From Lesley Allen
Posted April 11, 2002 at 7:24 AM
Are parks like Six Flags Magic Mountain and Cedar Point going too far in trying to maintain their "most coasters in a single park" status?

There are some coasters that people on this site have commented are uncomfortable at best... potentially dangerous at worst. Yet the parks keep them. And keep building more.

Are theme park companies sacrificing visitor enjoyment for the sake of sheer coaster numbers, in an endless attempt to "keep up with the Jones's"?

From mark holderness
Posted April 11, 2002 at 5:03 PM
In a way they are i mean people do love roller coasters but they also love dark rides and if they have younger kids with them they might want some less "scary" rides. So it depends on how much they have if the whole theme park is rollercoasters then yes wayyy to far. I mean you have to add variarty to your park not all people are dare devils. Like my mom she rather ride Mr. Todds wild ride instead of the Giant or the Hulk. SO it depends on the perspective of the customers way. I say as long as the parks have variaty then no it is not going far, but if that is all it is then yes they are.

From Robert Niles
Posted April 11, 2002 at 10:30 PM
Here's my problem with parks that engage in the "coaster war": Their newer roller coasters are, in general, single elements rather than complete rides.

I'm sick of waiting over an hour, or more, for a 30-second ride. Or getting a two-minute ride where nearly a minute and a half is spent getting out of the station and up the lift.

In the quest to get as many coasters as possible, we end up with eight, 10 or 12 half-baked coasters rather than five or six excellent ones. We get slow loading, low capacity out-and-back coasters rather than complete circuits with multiple trains and the ability to serve thousands of riders an hour.

It's the cheapness problem we've hammered on time and again in the Disney threads, except expressed in another way. Sure, it's more expensive to do one coaster right than three coasters half-baked.

And it is more expensive to build a smooth ride with enough track to comfortably space several elements than to cram an element in too short a space, scrambling my brain in the process.

But well-informed consumers are the antidote to corporate greed and myopia. So long as Six Flags, Cedar Fair and others go cheap in building these slow-loading, fraction-of-a-minute coasters, I say we keep complaining about them, while also praising those companies that do it right.

From Lesley Allen
Posted April 12, 2002 at 4:01 AM
I totally agree. That's why I think IOA is one of the savviest parks out there. They have 2 really great coasters (or 3....if you want to count DD as 2). And like Mark said, they also have a variety of other attractions to appeal to everyone. There's stuff for children, the elderly, and the less daring to do besides sit on a bench and wait for their thrill-loving family members or friends to exit the roller coasters.

I've seen people here say "IOA should build more coasters so they can keep up with Cedar Point". I say, that's exactly what IOA ought NOT to do. They are the classic example of what a theme park was designed to be.....a place where the WHOLE family can come and have fun. Not just the coaster lovers.

From Anonymous
Posted April 12, 2002 at 9:12 AM
I agree. IOA should just build another really good roller coasters rather than a small cheap one and just slap a theme on it. But still they should keep them coming.

From Anonymous
Posted April 12, 2002 at 1:41 PM
I think that the coaster war will never end. It has gone too far, but in the longrun, Six Flags is the victor. They just keep on breaking the limits, and pioneering new ideas that no one ever thought possible. Cedar Point is basically taking recycled ideas, and improving their status. For example, Six Flags first built the looping coaster, and the fourth dimensional coaster. Rides at Cedar Point are just breaking size limits. The Millennium Force coaster is just a normal drop coaster, but bigger. Although Cedar Point was first to have the most coasters, it is better to have few enjoyable rides, than many headache rides. Although both put great effort into this world record, Six Flags Magic Mountain will always have better rides, no matter what the number is. I also want to tell Six Flags to keep up the good work, but I'd tell Cedar Point to create new ideas, so people in both areas can enjoy rides.
-Max Jeffrey
Granada Hills, CA

From David Allen
Posted April 12, 2002 at 3:05 PM
Big is not necessarily good. Take PKI's "Son of Beast" for example. It is not a pleasurable ride, it is more like a feat of endurance. Sure, it breaks records, but does that matter? I do not like parks that are long on theming (PKI, Magic Mountain) who seem more like they want to shill their parent companies latest movies than provide a quality time for their guests. In the case of Cedar Point, while they have lots of big coasters (and the best, too), they have their park well divided with activities and rides for all age and thrill levels, without whoring themselves out as ad agencies for the parent companies. Cedar Fair parks are the best of those owned by large corporations. The parks they have acquired have improved but not lost their original character. Knott's has just gotten beter under their ownership. But they do need a Magnum or Millennium Force, though!

From Anonymous
Posted April 12, 2002 at 8:35 PM
i can not belive you people, magic mountian and cedar point are the best two parks in the world, ceder point has 16 roller coasters and 61 rides, which like 20 are kinda rides, it was also voted as the most beatiful park in the world, which means it's good to old people, now magic mountian is nice but it is kinda small, i'm from new orleans and i got jazzland, it sucks, it's the size of a baseball field, they only have two good roller coasters, do you see what i'm saying

From Robert Niles
Posted April 12, 2002 at 8:56 PM
Excuse me, but did you just say Cedar Point was voted the most beautiful park? By whom? I mean, it's a great amusement park, and perhaps the best place to ride every type of amusement ride ever built, but beautiful?

Someone needs to get out more.

From Nathan Ellstrand
Posted April 12, 2002 at 10:37 PM
The 'Coaster War' is not going too's just beginning, literally. Sure parks have been getting coasters consistently for some time, but it's increasing. Think about it, Magic Mountain added three coasters, THREE coasters! No park has really done that ever before. Other parks like Six Flags Great America added two, which is still up there.

Now on new coasters being half-baked, no way! Every coaster has its own unique quality to it. Superman: The Escape is just up and back, but it goes 100 miles per hour, making it unique. Some people don't even want an enjoyable ride, just a record breaking one. The more coasters we see, the more different types and styles.

Now for the Anonymous writer, Cedar Point has 15 coasters, the last time I checked and I thought Busch Gardens Williamsburg was considered the most beautiful park. And Magic Mountain being small, it's pretty big. But you are right, Cedar Point and Magic Mountain are two of the best parks in the world. And Jazzland only having three coasters, is not too bad for a regional park.

From mark holderness
Posted April 13, 2002 at 7:47 PM
In a way i agree with Nate. The coaster war has started if you look Cedar Point isn't building rollercoasters and lots just for fun they are in competition and have been with other top roller coaster parks around the U.S.. But in another way it just started since all the amazing knock your shoes off rides are coming. Like the X built in Magic Mountain, I don't theme parks are going to let this one slide off their backs. They are going to built and X type roller coaster too. So the war has just started and WILL go far, but it had already started in the past.

From Anonymous
Posted April 13, 2002 at 8:38 PM
Although it would be a shame if parks were single-mindedly pursuing more coasters without any thought of quality, somehow I don't think that’s going to happen. It's well known that in order to keep the paying customers coming, parks have to continually create new attractions, and from what I've seen the emphasis is on novelty- something that's unique or different. So I for one look forward to the continuing innovation in roller coaster design. Enjoy it while it lasts.

From Lesley Allen
Posted April 14, 2002 at 8:31 AM
Nathan, I believe you're right. I think it was BGW that garnered the "most beautiful theme park" award this past year.

And Anonymous, nobody is putting down any of the parks......we're only speculating on if the ongoing "coaster war" is going to hurt the parks in the long run.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 16, 2002 at 4:38 AM
I think the title of Coaster King is a dubious one anyhow. Look at Magic Mountain. Included in its count are two kiddie coasters and Flashback, which is almost never opened. Add to that the fact that everyone hates Psyclone. And then there are the half-baked coasters, though I would call them half-(|)ed instead, like Ninja and Viper. Being the Coaster Capital with so many losers on your list is kind of like bragging about being the tallest person in Lilliput. You didn't really have to do much to get there.

So I would say that the coaster war has definitely hurt the visitors to SFMM. As happy as I was to see two innovative coasters go into that park in one year, I would be happier to see some other styles of attractions go into that park for once. Lesley beat me to the punch when she said that IOA has the mix right. If you can land your three coasters in most Top Ten lists, then you don't need 15 of the things.

From Robert Niles
Posted April 16, 2002 at 10:03 AM
Press conferences at ride openings are almost always boring affairs. But the press conference to open "X" yield one laugh-out-loud memorable moment.

It happened when park GM Del Holland hyped the other two coasters the park had opened in the past year, Deja Vu... and Goliath Jr.

When the assembled crowd saw the video of that barely more than a shopping mall flat ride, they burst into laughter. Even Holland tried to play it off, noting the ride's "extreme" six foot drop, etc.

But everyone there was wise to the trick. Magic Mountain was padding its number with a lame kiddie ride that any child who's ridden Gadget or Unicorn would consider unworthy of being called a roller coaster.

From Jason Herrera
Posted April 16, 2002 at 10:49 AM
Magic Mountain Unlike Cedar Point is a testing ground for Prototypes.. Magic Mountain is able to throw out these types of rides do to one thing. The fact that they're open yearly (weekends during off season)

Cedar Point could never, and will possibly never ever get a "un-seen," ride at it's park.. Some argue that Wicked Twister, is a "prototype." Well isn't there already rides like it at Six Flags marine world? And over at Six Flags Great america?

Magic Mountain will always have the upper hand on Cedar Point when it comes to Insane rides.. Cedar Point may come out with an insane ride, but it won't be a "new" type of ride, it'll have been tested and already established in the industry...

Cedar Point can't afford the down time of a prototype as they're only open about 6 months in the year... so Magic Mountain will always have the better thrill rides... due to one aspect, Climate!

From Anonymous
Posted April 16, 2002 at 3:03 PM
I don't see the point in even taller or more twisted coasters... millenium force and the B&M inverted shockers like BATMAN at SFMM are propably the two extremes, and I don't think that a further push toward the extreme makes any sense at all, because dropping from 300 feet or 400 feet doesn't seem to be that much of a difference, and the human body has certain physical limits as to how it may be jerked around.
I hope that some future lies in rides "like" X with a more creative attitude...

There has always been the war for the biggest and most thrilling coaster, as long as they exist, but due to the new generation of coasters that appeared in the 90ies, the war is far from over, and I hope that the riders don't have to suffer.

From Anonymous
Posted April 16, 2002 at 4:48 PM
For those of you who haven't yet heard, Canada has its own major amusement park, Paramount Canada's Wonderland. In terms of the coaster wars, PCW is not even a major player, but in terms of having quality coasters, PCW is one of the best in the world. All of the coasters are of extremely good quality and most are multi-element coasters.

Dragon Fyre- Arrow Corkscrew Coaster with two loops and a descending helix.

Wild Beast- Woody with some great drops, good air time, and that feeling that the train will leave the track in the next corner

The Bat- Arrow (I think) Boomerang Coaster with a great half loop (I don't know the actual name)

The Fly- Wild Mouse coaster with a 50 foot first drop and some great corners

Silver Streak- Junior Suspended Coaster, perfect for coaster virgins and kids

Ghoster Coaster- A small woody with some good air time.

Minebuster- An out and back Woody with good air time, not as good since they changed it a couple years ago

Skyrider- Stand-Up with uncomfortable seats but a loop, a helix and a long ride time

Top Gun- Suspended Looping Coaster, amazing Coaster with a killer first drop, some great elements like a loop and corkscrew and some extremely close cross-overs

Vortex- Hanging Coaster, fastest in the park, rated at sixty mph, but I rode it last year and it felt closer to 100mph.

I love PCW, there's no better place to go for variety of coasters and I would willingly wait 3 hrs for any coaster in the park (I've waited that long for most of them!) I've had a season's pass for six years now, and I can't wait to go back this year!

From Anonymous
Posted April 17, 2002 at 12:34 AM
Coaster wars are perfect.. because they are fought and made for the Coaster FAN.

Cedar Point is hands down the Greatest Thrill Park. Kings Island has the eye candy.. who wouldnt love seeing beast wound through a forest. And Univeral Florida is the #1 Family park.

If you want a quality ride, every park has one.. but sometimes you want that rush that those just cant supply.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 18, 2002 at 3:39 AM
True, but that doesn't mean the Coaster Wars aren't getting stupid. Sure, maybe some people will head to a park because they claim to have the most of this or the highest that or the fastest this, but look at the Attendance thread. Not one of the Top Ten parks is considered a part of the Coaster Wars. Sure, IOA has coasters which usually fill many Top Ten lists, but their high ranking has far less to do with their coasters than with a host of other factors.

Frankly I think the "Coaster Wars" are created just so people can have long childish fights on websites about Magic Mountain and Cedar Point.

From Jason Herrera
Posted April 18, 2002 at 10:08 AM
I agree with Kevin! Mr Richard Kinzel and Mr Del Holland; are pure genius Business men when it comes to this.. ( Coaster war) They sit back and watch immature websites bicker about who has more coasters and which isn't a coaster and who has the better lap bar. I've seen stories on guys with no jobs who are running these coaster websites... who'll literally watch the whole construction of a roller coaster... I mean really people; do people have better things to do?

But in the End it's people like Del and Richard who are the ultimate genius businessmen, and rake in the $$$!!!!

From Robert Niles
Posted April 18, 2002 at 11:20 AM
Coaster Wars appeal to a pretty limited segment of the theme/amusement park market. The trouble is, the resources required to engage in a coaster war pretty much ensure that a park won't have the capital to develop other attractions, such as dark rides, that appeal to theme park fans who aren't coaster freaks.

Engage in a coaster war, and you're gonna get coaster fans. Sure, you'll lose out on the larger market, but you will ensure steady income and steady expenses for the years to come. For a risk-adverse company, it's a sensible plan. Even if it isn't the most potentially profitable one.

From mark holderness
Posted April 19, 2002 at 4:55 PM
The Coaster War is going far, but i give mad props to Six Flags. As i see it MM is cheating. They through lots of halfbaked rides that will draw fans due to curiosty, so even if publicity isn't involed people will come. But all of the money they save from those halfbaked rides they through out a cool fun i must wait in line for 5 hours ride like the X which will draw more fans. And since they are already there and spent money the crowds go and ride they other not as good rides. So SFMM is kind of drawing people in slower and slower then......BAM a big coaster.

From Anonymous
Posted April 21, 2002 at 6:48 PM
I really dont think it is goin to far.If people dont like the way coasters are made now,they should just deal with it.The greatest thrill park is Islands of Adventure even though it only has 4 coasters.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 22, 2002 at 5:38 AM
You just contradicted yourself. The "Coaster War" refers to records that parks have: highest, longest, fastest, most, etc. IOA's coasters haven't really broken any records. Sure, they are innovative, but they aren't record-breaking.

From Anonymous
Posted April 24, 2002 at 10:50 PM
If you look at the space Cedar Point has, I believe that the mega ride boom at that park will be nearing an end. I dont think the park will be tearing down its smaller family classics or even camper village to create a park full of magnums and mellenium forces. That is, unless they could build their rides over the waters of lake Erie. I am not familiar with Magic Mountain so I cant comment on how much room they have, but I imagine that this will become an issue as new rides develop. Parks will eventually run out of space and these parks will have to make tough decisions on which rides to pull down to accomidate newer rides, which only brave enthusiasts will be willing to get on.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 25, 2002 at 3:55 AM
MM actually has a lot of room. They own a lot of the land around the park, which at one time they planned on turning into a second park. With X moving into that land, I guess they have given up on that goal.

From Anonymous
Posted April 25, 2002 at 10:33 AM
the coaster war has not gotn anywhere as far as it should go, i am dying from a brain tumor and i've got a few months to live. coasters give me hope and best of all thrills. i know i am dying, i go to a theme park every few days, i luv it! please stop scuabbling over it , think what im feel like. i would know your responce so please try to understand.


From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 26, 2002 at 2:08 AM
I would think a brain tumor would make roller coasters a major no-no. With all the brain problems lately, why would someone want to play the odds? Personally, I'd rather die at home.

From Lesley Allen
Posted April 26, 2002 at 3:43 AM
Oh, I don't know, Kevin. I think that if I knew for sure that I had a terminal illness, I'd want to pack as much fun into my remaining time as I possibly could.

I saw a signature from a poster on another message board that said it perfectly: "I'd rather die living than live like I'm dead."

From Anonymous
Posted April 26, 2002 at 3:45 PM
Well, If the guy is serious, I would have to agree with him. Personally it would be kinda cool to have written on my grave marker "Died while riding Millenium Force, Cedar Point, OH". Or wherever he would ride.

The "War" is starting and beginning. The parks like Cedar Point will have a hard time putting more and more rides in. The hotels and camper village are part of Cedar Point. The place was a vacation place before it ever was a park. People used to go there and have a good time to enjoy Lake Erie and so on. It really didn't become the "Park" until the road to it was built.

I can applaud the for the building of the Wicked Twister this year. Wether it is good or not I dont know, but they are trying to conserve space. The space problem is very obvious, considering that they had to move the ferris wheel to build Millenium Force.

The whole magic mountain thing is just stupid. The whole 3 coasters in 1 year is only to boost their business for the xtreme coaster riders(Like us). But really they cant now compete with cedar point as to winning the war.

Having Six Flags(Other thqan MM) on here is not really good. Cmon, all they really do is buy parks like Geauga Lake in OH or that Adventure place in maryland and slap their new names on the brochures. THey totally ruined Geauga Lake. They put a bunch of roller coasters in there and think its better. But really Geauga Lake never had the compacity to hold all of that. So now the place is terrible for a trip. I warn you dont go there.

As to the war beginning I believe some of the smaller parks will be able to put more coasters in and be able to compete with your cedar point and SFMM. I cant believe Hersheypark is not mentioned on this list. Hersheypark is a great park with something for everybody. Plus they have lots of coasters that are good quality(excluding superdooperlooper, although the single bar restraint this is freaky when you first ride).

The whole coaster war will slow down anyway. I thing I like to do is ride ALL of the rides. When I went to Cedar Point I hardly had anytime to ride them. I had to skip Corkscrew and Cedar Creek mine Ride because I ran out of time. At parks with less filler and more killer on their coasters are better. IOA is great because you can do most everything in 1 day. You have time to go to the cool shows like Posiedons Fury and that arabian show where the guy sets himself on fire.

Funny Note-- Well when I went to Cedar Point on a WEDNESDAY we were first in line to get in the park. The funny thing was they made a grand entrance of it. The flag was raised as the star spangled banner was played. But when they opened up the gates I about got run over. About 400 people had a footrace to the Millenium force. I am lucky I can run relatively fast so I only had about a 30 min wait(Considering many people went to the marina entrance to get in which is closer to the ride). Anyway It looked like the running of the bulls getting in there. My advice to anyone would be to either ride Mantis or somethng with a long wait at another time in the dayand wait until the very end to ride Millenium Force. MIllenium Force is so good it made the other rides look bad. Other rides that would look great at another park just didn't seem anygood after riding it first. Dont get me wrong, if ou want to enjoy the other rides more, ride millenium force last(Give yourself about 3 hours 45 min before closing, the ride wait on millenium force is long).

Thank you for reading this really big thread

From Bryan Roberson
Posted April 26, 2002 at 8:04 PM
I think the coaster war is great! Its good to see who can get the most. If the ride is only 30 seconds, tough luck you'll live. 4 example at SFMM you wait in line for Deja Vu for like 2 hours. And its only like 30 seconds long but the extreme level is so high.So would you rather have 3 minutes of high thrill extreme (headache heaven) or at max a minute of great thrills boom-boom-bang! No chain lifts or brake runs or small hills, just straight to the point EXTREME.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 27, 2002 at 3:24 AM
I'd rather have 3 minutes. There is only ONE thing I will wait two hours for, and THAT better last longer than 3 minutes also.

From mark holderness
Posted April 27, 2002 at 2:13 PM
I would rather have the ride be long enough for me to enjoy it, but not to long for it to take the fun out of it. Plus i think in door roller coasters should stop. They only limited you to how big the building is. And not to mention the cost to build the building and then build the ride.

From Robert Niles
Posted April 27, 2002 at 3:57 PM
It bugs the heck out of me when the trip up to the top of the first lift takes more time than the ensuing ride back to the station.

(That's my biggest complain with "X," by the way.)

From Kevin Baxter
Posted April 28, 2002 at 3:32 AM
I tend to think of the trip up the hill as part of the excitement. Building anticipation and all that.

But for such a short ride, I can understand why X's lift would be so irritating. Why didn't they get those speedy lifts where you rise quickly, like on Dueling Dragons? Not saying it should have a Hulk launch, but something to get you up there a little quicker. From what I hear, even Goliath gets you to the top faster than X.

From Robert Niles
Posted April 28, 2002 at 2:32 PM
Especially given that the rest of the ride is so ground-breaking. To listen to the clackity-clack of the rachet dog as I inch up the lift, like I'm on some old woodie racing coaster or something, just seems *so* out-of-place on X.

From Steve Warren
Posted May 2, 2002 at 2:23 PM
On Millenium Force you get to the top in about 10 seconds. I like that alot because on a 310 foot hill it takes too long to get to the top. Although the old clickety clack chain lifts on woddies have a nostalgia to them.

From Anonymous
Posted May 7, 2002 at 6:15 AM
First things first, let's compare the size of the two park chains, Cedar Fair owns six, and operates one. Six Flags owns and operates what, 35 different parks?, and they put cookie cutter coasters in each of them. So you cannot compare the two companies. I would be interested in knowing how many Cedar Point bashers have actually been there. I have been going there yearly since I was in Kindergarten, and they always had and still have plenty of rides for children. I also can say the people who are desecrating the appearance of CP have definetely not been there, maybe you have seen pictures, but you have not been there. It is very, very scenic, with a nice amount of landscaping, and plenty of trees. I am not about to bash MM because I have never been there, and when I do go, it will most positively have to earn my endorsement. If what I read above about having a five hour wait for 'X' is true, let me say the longest I ever waited for Millennium Force was 35 minutes, and that is a 3.5 minute ride. You just have to know when the best time to go presents itself, and it depends on the operators. Good operators are proud of their rides and want people to enjoy themselves, and not wait for the second coming. Who cares if the war is going to far, isn't this an enthusiast's website?

From Kevin Baxter
Posted May 8, 2002 at 3:00 AM
It isn't a "Roller Coasters at the Expense of Everything Else" website. This is a "Theme Park" site, which means we like all kinds of rides. Having 15 or whatever coasters in one park doesn't impress me. Having 15 GOOD COASTERS in one park would. But, as you can tell from many coaster enthusiasts on this site, IOA has just four and is still mostly our favorite park. So Cedar Point and MM can build until they have 300 apiece, neither will ever beat IOA.

From Anonymous
Posted May 9, 2002 at 4:39 AM
I understand your point, Kevin that this is a Theme Park fans' site, but Cedar Point is not a theme park, never was, they may be trying now, with all the Peanuts' characters popping up everywhere. As far as the coasters go, CP has 5 excellent ones.(Wicked Twister, Millennium Force, Magnum, Raptor, and Mantis). I can also say there are a few I would not mind them getting rid of. How many parks have 5 EXCELLENT coasters? It all boils down to this, there are theme parks, and thrill parks. If you don't want to ride coasters with your kids, go to to Disneyland. This argument between Theme and Thrill is not even a valid one. Some places are themed, some just have rides.

From Lesley Allen
Posted May 9, 2002 at 9:39 AM
Of course, whether you consider a coaster "excellent" or not is strictly a matter of opinion. I have seen several other opinions stating that both Raptor and Mantis have passed their prime and should be revamped or removed. And I've seen others still who believe that after the 1st drop, Millenium Force is a boring ride.

We're not debating on what park is most themed or most thrilling. What we're debating is whether some parks are sacrificing the quality of new coasters...or keeping worn-out and unpopular old ones...just to up their coaster count.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted May 10, 2002 at 3:33 AM
... and whether or not parks that keep focusing on coasters are hurting themselves in other areas. As far as I'm concerned, MM has four great coasters and one of the most historic ones in the world. Wouldn't it be better if both of the parks vying to be the "Coaster Capital" would stop that nonsense and simply replace a lame coaster with a good one?

From Anonymous
Posted May 27, 2002 at 11:02 PM
Kevin, I agree with you 100% there.

Posted May 27, 2002 at 11:43 PM
In a way the war is going too far. Keeping crappy coasters around just for numbers sake is pretty lame, but on the other hand, if there wasn't so much competition SFMM and CP wouldn't be adding coasters at such a feverish pace. Deja Vu and X kick some serious ass. Without the competition from CP I don't think both of them would have been added at pretty much the same time. Now that Wicked Twister is open at CP, you know its only a matter of time before SFMM retaliates. And now Knott's is trying to get in the mix. I think that SFMM has the advantage because it has so much space. I hear they own alot of the surrounding land, and there's lots of it around there. I've never been to CP but I've seen alot of pictures and been on the website and just watched a one hour program on the Discovery channel about it and it seems to me that there is not a whole lot of room there. I plan on taking a trip there within the next year. Anyone got any tips? SFMM really has got to do something about their crappy coasters. Flashback, Ninja, and Psyclone just straight-out suck. Colossus and Revolution aren't what they used to be (damn those trim brakes to hell!). But they do have some kick-ass coasters. X, Deja Vu, Goliath, Batman, Riddler's Revenge, Superman, and Viper are top-notch rides. SFMM is my favorite park in Southern Cali, but then again I'm a coaster freak.

From Kevin Baxter
Posted May 29, 2002 at 2:53 AM
But SFMM ISN'T competing with Cedar Point. Trying for some stoopid title isn't competing. How many people out there say, "Well, honey, should we go to Magic Mountain or Cedar Point this year?" I am sure the number isn't high. MM needs to compete with the parks in SoCal. It will never compete with Disneyland or Universal, they are national entities, but they do need to compete with Knott's and DCA. DCA will probably never really be in competition since it will rely on DL's overflow for the next decade, but KBF can be a problem. Now it seems MM and KBF are in their own little coaster war. Which is okay as long as coasters like X and Deja Vu are created. But then what about the family market? Are they just going to let ALL of them head over to DL or USH? All this coaster nonsense is making both parks lose sight of their biggest market.

From Corey Taylor
Posted May 29, 2002 at 12:31 PM
Great Point.The best to ensure that your park will stay above water is to create a family oriented park.But, some like SFMM and CP are loosing that site.Yes, both parks have a kiddie area but, the parks aren't even thinking about family oriented.It's all about money.Let's see which park get's the most profit this year. Yet your point is well taken. I think Disney, Seworld, Busch Gardens, and Universal Studios have all capitalized on the family oriented basis on what a theme park should be.So, far as the coaster wars are concerned.I think some parks are looking to see how they can make a greater profit from their last season.

From Lesley Allen
Posted May 30, 2002 at 3:41 AM
Corey brought up a point that I've thought of before......Between SFMM and CP......which park DID bring in larger profits last season? Anyone know?

From Squall Coasterz
Posted May 30, 2002 at 1:49 PM
Let me just first start off by stating that I am a 'thrill seeker.' By definition, I am always looking for something bigger and better to satisfy my thirst for a quality ride. Now, in the last four years, I have had the opportunity to ride over one hundred new coasters that have given me new insight on the topic which I have grown to love oh so well......roller coasters. I may not be as experienced as some, but I regard myself as an enthusiast nonetheless.
Now, I have been to at least one amusement park from every major company out there. I've seen it all, and for me, after something has been done, I need something increasingly thrilling the next time to keep the adrenaline flowing. With that in mind, I have become a true Cedar Point fan and basically cringe at comments downing the park.
Way way back, someone posted a messafe about Cedar Point rides being unoriginal, and Six Flags rides being the opposite. Well, let's do a little history lesson here. Every rollercoaster in the world that is built, is built with past rollercoasters in mind. So if we just look at this, NO rolelrcoaster is really original. For those of us that do believe in originality though, let us look at Cedar Point: Gemini, a steel racing coater with wooden you know of anything like this other than Excalibur ( which is also at a Cedar Fair park)? No, you do not, because there aren't any. Ron Toomer's corkscrew....the first ride to use a triple looping element and a loop over a midway...hmmmm, sounds pretty original. How about this one........ready.........this is a biggy............THE HYPERCOASTER..........every six flags hyper coaster, morgan hypercoaster, and giovanola hypercoaster is based off of this truly magnificent original which shaped the rollercoaster world as it is today. One made a comment earlier about Millennium Force being "just a ride with a larger drop." Well, that person obviously hadn't realized that MF was the first coaster to utilize the overbanked turn....which was later COPED by Six Flags with SUperman Ride of Steel at SFNE. And to top it off, MF may not be original........but it is an extension of a design that CEDAR POINT invented. Mantis.....the first stand up coaster to utilize many new elements..........Raptor......the first inverted coaster to utilize a cobra roll. So you might say that some of these rides aren't prototypes. In fact, most of them aren't.....but what they are are sure, sound, definite improvements on ride types that have been proven popular. So essentially, Cedar Point only produces rollercoasters that they are SURE will be a sound hit with the people. And if you look at your review books, ever rollercoaster that cedar point has built since 1989 has been a complete audience hit. So hopefully there will be no more bashing on Cedar Point's quality, OR originality, because most coaster enthusiasts out there know when a park is good. the golden ticket awards do not lie, neither do the awards tha give cedar point best park title, and MF best steel coaster title.
As for this coaster war thing........I wouldn't call it a war. I would call it a renessaince. If parks were to suddenly stop creating new ideas......what would keep us occupied? The fact why millions of people go to MM and CP each year is because of the new developements that are shaping the ways of the industry! You cannot bore your customers, and you cannot become idle in the business. The combination of these two factors makes the coaster renessaince an undenyable factor in the amusement park world, so learn to accpet it.....for now that is.
One final comment on the Cedar Point bashers who tend to think that the park is running out of room. Last year, corporate manager of CP responded to someone who said the same thing. The park is already looking at expansion......on piers. They may have a small peninsula, but they have a whole lake, and they have permission to use it. I'm not saying that they are the best park in the World, I'm just saying that people should stop trying to bar them form the credit they deserve. I have never been as happy at a park as I have been at CP, and I will always love the park for that. The coaster building era is here, and will be for years to come. Instead of arguing over how it could be better, why don't we just realize that the business is here for US, and is doing its best to please US (even though some of us are too arrogant to be pleased). Why don't we just Sit down, hold on, and enjoy the ride while we're still here? After all, that is what we are all about, isn't it? Sorry for taking up so much time. I was just becoming sick to my stomach listening to people, as was said earlier, bach a park and industry that they had either never been to or knew nothing about. See ya later, and keep on riding!!!!!!!

From Ryan Workman
Posted May 30, 2002 at 3:18 PM
I like the fishes cause they so del....., oh sorry, you all are saying about how parks think 15 crap rides are better than 3 or 4, well i do see you point, i mean IOA and BG are two cool parks, with only 3 real coasters each they kickass, now on the other hand, Cedar Point has some awsome rides, don't get me wrong, yes a few suck and are just taking up space, but i can't belive you people when you say Millennium Force is a sucky coaster, not just the drop makes it bad ass, it's the speed it keeps up through the whole ride, it never slows down, and the lenth is awsome, 6,500 ft. of track, i mean come on people you got to love it, now to MM, you say X is so cool, you know what would be cooler, a ride that WORKED, X is down more than it runs, deja vu is cool, but way to short, sure vertical drop, 3 inversions forwards and 3 backwards, cool but way to short, sure rides are fun, but they do have lines like hell, i mean 3 hours, i would shot off my foot before i'd do that, just to add a small note, i'm 16 and i passed this school year, almost failed, but i didn't, so i passed, come on, the bigger the cooler, there is nothing like facing your fears on a 300 ft. coaster,
well i love coasters and chicks but chicks on coasters is the best!!!

From Ryan Workman
Posted May 30, 2002 at 3:18 PM
I like the fishes cause they so del....., oh sorry, you all are saying about how parks think 15 crap rides are better than 3 or 4, well i do see you point, i mean IOA and BG are two cool parks, with only 3 real coasters each they kickass, now on the other hand, Cedar Point has some awsome rides, don't get me wrong, yes a few suck and are just taking up space, but i can't belive you people when you say Millennium Force is a sucky coaster, not just the drop makes it bad ass, it's the speed it keeps up through the whole ride, it never slows down, and the lenth is awsome, 6,500 ft. of track, i mean come on people you got to love it, now to MM, you say X is so cool, you know what would be cooler, a ride that WORKED, X is down more than it runs, deja vu is cool, but way to short, sure vertical drop, 3 inversions forwards and 3 backwards, cool but way to short, sure rides are fun, but they do have lines like hell, i mean 3 hours, i would shot off my foot before i'd do that, just to add a small note, i'm 16 and i passed this school year, almost failed, but i didn't, so i passed, come on, the bigger the cooler, there is nothing like facing your fears on a 300 ft. coaster,
well i love coasters and chicks but chicks on coasters is the best!!!

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