Here's my take: Disney reduced what could have been a rim-rattling slam dunk to a layup. Yeah, the additions shown off today still score, but they don't get people out of their seats and shouting to their friends the way a complete new extension of the land - with the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train mountain at its center and not a construction wall in sight - would have.
Disney chose to save substantial construction costs by building its new Fantasyland in phases, rather than paying the extra expense to build all four components - Storybooks Circus, Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast and Seven Dwarfs Mine Train - at the same time. So we got Storybook Circus last spring, Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast last month, and we will get the Mine Train in 2014.
That's spreading the impact of the new land over two years. It's as if Universal had opened the Wizarding World of Harry Potter with Hogwarts still under construction, then debuted Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey 18 months later. No, I don't expect the Mine Train to be as spectacular as Forbidden Journey has been, but I think that makes Disney's position even weaker. The Mine Train could have been the final piece to really wow people today. Instead, it's presence in the middle of the New Fantasyland simply serves to remind everyone that today's "premiere" isn't. The project won't be complete for more than another year.
I love what Disney's done with New Fantasyland - so far. But I want to raise the missed opportunity here. Opening Fantasyland in dribs and drabs might please the hard-core fans, who are always looking for something new. But that decision kept Fantasyland from having the critical mass that allows a project to appeal beyond established fans and grab the attention of other potential visitors - the way that the Wizarding World of Harry Potter and to a lesser extent Cars Land did.
The Magic Kingdom will get an attendance boost over the next year as people who put off visits in 2011 and 2012 to avoid the construction begin to return. But some will hold out until 2014, further dampening the impact that the New Fantasyland could have had for the company.
Yes, building it all at once would have been more expensive. Substantially so. But theme parks have always been a business where you have to spend money to make money. Contrast Disney's relative caution with Universal's damn-the-budget drive to get Transformers built and open within 12 months.
A complete New Fantasyland would have convinced more Orlando-area visitors reason to come to the Magic Kingdom in 2013 - not 2014 or beyond. But with construction walls remaining in the middle of that area all year, I wonder how many of those potential visitors might choose to spend a day over at Universal's completed Transformers in late 2013, instead.
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I think that if any group was going to complain it would be the die-hard WDW fans (who often do complain), and there doesn't seem to be much of that.
Yeah, I think that's a better comparison than Potterland, but the fact that they built it in three separate phases should still draw criticism. Disney isn't infallible and this shows it.
Not announcing one of a kind events at all isn't a great way to endear yourself to your fans, Disney.
I do think Disney should have opened New Fantasyland all together, but Universal has perpetual construction - there are never not construction walls somewhere.
In part, I agree that they may have been better to wait for the entire project to be finished before holding the grand opening. However, Fantasyland isn't new per say and what Disney is doing in this case is very similar to what they did in Anaheim with California Adventure. With the upgrade and expansion of DCA they opened attractions in phases that were ultimately part of the grand re-opening of the park. I think it's save to say now that the DCA upgrade is a huge success, so attempting to repeat that success in Orlando really isn't a bad approach.
The problem seems to come from calling it the "New Fantasyland" when a major attraction is still unfinished. But on the other hand it would be easy to be critical two years from now when it's all done that calling it the "New Fantasyland" then would be two years too late.
Lastly, the dragon only debuted to guests attending the private party at the Magic Kingdom last night. It has yet to make a public appearance.
The Princess Fairytale Hall not opening today leaves a second constructions site inside the NEW Fantasyland
Yes I know it got added on late too...
I dont think the goal of Transformers is for USF to jump a Disney Park in attendance by itself. I think its more of a "stop gap" for 2013 before London opens in 2014 instead of everyone delaying their vacations. And once Potter opens it will help balance guest traffic and retain the guest longer in USF instead of Muggles just riding Hogwarts express between each park all day.
A park that is already very crowded and needs extra attraction capacity lost three solid attractions with the Snow White ride (a true classic), Mickey's house and Minnie's house. Before we could meet Mickey in his house, which was great for setting the stage and creating anticipation. Now we meet him in a hall with a queue on Main St., that's a fail.
Don't get me wrong. What Disney built is very nice but it simply falls far short of the 'Wow' factor they needed and hoped for, and we lost too many other attractions in the process. What a shame...
Beauty and the Beast dark ride? I don't see why that is necessary. Little Mermaid is a fine dark ride and superior to Snow White and a significant increase in capacity from that lost attraction. While Snow White may have been a classic it was dated and the least visited of the Fantasyland attractions. In a little over a year the new Seven Dwarfs coaster will open offering another significant increase in capacity. Dumbo also doubled in capacity.
Mickey's house and Minnie's house were not what I would call attractions.
I'm torn on what I think of the land.. in some ways I'm glad that Disney didn't just build E-tickets... because parks need atmosphere and variety of attractions. But it seems to me all 3 princesses (Belle, Aerial, Snow White) could have received more royal attractions. What we are getting is most likely 2 D Ticket rides, and a A or B level walk through with a meet and greet. Please don't get me wrong.. I like the Belle meet and greet idea. But all of this fuss over a restaurant seems odd... yes I've been there.. I went twice. I like it.... but I really want a ride.. not a restaurant. Beauty and Beast could have been a legitamite family E-ticket but instead they went with a restaurant (which makes money $$$) and a meet and greet (which makes money $$$ through photopass).
There is nothing overly critical about this... it's just stating facts. And yes.. Universal is busy building legit. E-Tickets at a breathtaking fast pace.
As for the whole 'Disney needs to stop people going to Universal instead' debate. Really? Universal has deeply impressive attractions but there simply isn't enough in the parks to keep your interest over more than a couple of days. I find they give great 'wow' but grow stale very quickly. Disney meanwhile offers 4 parks, at least two of which are deeply and wholely immersive environments that repay lingering and repeat visits, plus they offer a whole heap of resorts to explore. Having seen New Fantasyland on preview a few weeks ago I have to say I'm blown away by the attention to detail. Yes it will only feel complete when the Seven Dwarves Mine Train opens but once that is there the whole area is going to be something exceptional. And frankly you don't need E tickets when the level of themeing and environmental detail is so high - Disney understands that people love to simple soak up their parks and have designed accordingly.
You are out of step with the vast majority of the theme park press here Robert who love New Fantasyland even as it is and I think you know why...
Robert continues: “Yes, building it all at once would have been more expensive. Substantially so.”
I Respond: Writing as a guy who has worked in commercial construction for 15 years (a background that includes building attractions as a project manager and estimator) How do you figure this strategy saved “substantial” (emphasis on the word “substantial”) construction costs? How would that have made construction "... more expensive. Substantially so"?
The only thing I realy don't get is why Disney has chosen the already succesful MK to invest in when their other parks could do with some tlc. Making a less succesful park more interresting (like California Adventure) who takes the heat from their most succesful park and adds excitement to another one.
Right.......
Looks to me like some of y'all need to get a perspective.
Gotta agree with THC though. It would have been less expensive to do all of the Fantasyland expansion at once instead of doing it in phases. Part of me suspects that they were planning to do the Seven Dwarfs Mine Coaster a few years out but decided to add it in now because of all of the construction at Universal.
Comparing this to Transformers totally misses out on the reasons for these two projects. While both business decisions, Fantasyland expansion is to deal with large crowds at an already successful park. They weren't doing it to attract more people. It might but the point is to alleviate the pains at peak seasons. So the business goal is to keep customers happy and from staying away from the park.
Transformers is an aggressive move to gain market share. Timing is important. Completely different objective and therefore completely different approach.
I love this site but if the front page is going to take on this critical approach instead of what used to be informative articles then there should be some effort to focus on real facts and compare apples to apples.
Also Disney's decision to phase in the project did a couple of things for them. It spreads out the capital investment, opened up areas to help increase capacity throughout the project and not just all at once. There was a large section of fantasyland and toon town taken out for this so it was important to get back what they could to help with crowd capacity. There is a lot more strategic thought put into this than this article gives them credit for.
Now don't get me wrong, there may be room for criticism that says Disney may have missed the boat in the past five years and this project should have already happened so that they could be working on newer rides to increase interest to compete with HP and Transformers and what looks like a soon to be upgraded USO park. At least now we are comparing apples and apples.
And I really don't want to debate Disney and Universal again. Ugh. Such a tired conversation. They're both great - let's leave it at that.
The prior phases of DCA has already opened like the Little Mermaid attraction, the Bugsland spinners, and other various attractions. DCA did their grand opening for the entire land, including the E-Ticket Ride.
Now, Fantasyland has NO E-TICKET ride regardless of when the Dwarfs ride will open. It is still a small upgrade to the Magic Kingdom although it looks big. Its still a big disappointment in all respects. There's lots of empty space there and plenty of walls.
Man I can't wait until 2014 to ride a ride that Walt didn't see fit to build 50 years ago, that no other Florida maybe the world has. I mean look how excited the people are in the test video riding in the back of a pick up swaying back and forth. I mean I'll be getting all my jiggle jabbles out from the water park if this happens in 2014. This is my high priority, second is getting my butthole pierced. When it takes less than a year to build a world class roller coaster at Cedar Point in the brutal winters of Sandusky, OH with lake effect weather and it's taking Disney more than 2 years in Florida to build a kids ride.... I'm so going to be there! ......Sometime in 2014.....riding a kids ride......that was lame in 1960......and still lame today.
Disney has better theme. Universal has better rides. I don't understand why I should pay money to see something that isn't complete (scenery is the only reason for me to visit).
I also think it is reasonable to assert that by adding these attractions the Magic Kingdom will remain one of the most (if not THE MOST)successful theme park business models on the planet.
Slightly related: I would not be surprised to see Disneyland outpace the Magic Kingdom in the annual soothsaying,bone tossing, guess-timate published by TEA/AECOM. The expansion of California Adventure could have sent enough bodies next door to Disneyland to unseat the Magic Kingdom's from the number one ranking in attendance.
You honestly expected them to not open anything until the 7 Dwarfs ride is finished? why? That ride is a long construction project, you want them to keep everything else 'under construction' for another year for no reason other than to satisfy your negativity, what about all those families and guests who would be denied access to New Fantasyland for possibly their only vacation for no reason whatsoever. Get real.
Second Seven Dwarfs isn't the only problem, I count three construction sites in the just opened New Fantasyland and three in the Under construction Studios of Florida
and wouldn't expect them to hold the opening up for one ride, but having the Tangled area and Princess Fairytale Hall open is more a planning issue than anything else
I can't help but look at the new Fantasyland and think what a waste of space it is. It's a disgrace that MK hasn't added an E ticket in 20 years and in that time has actually axed one without replacing it. To develop such a large parcel of land and not include an E ticket seems like a missed opportunity. Give them another 20 years and they'll have demolished the Jungle Cruise and replaced it with dueling magic carpet spinners and an Aladdin meet and greet. But hey, at least we'll have interactive queues!
I Respond: Exactly! A children's coaster which will draw millions and millions of families to the most popular theme park on the planet.
To begin with...Robert, so in the same line of logic, should Most of DCA remained closed while the rest of it was finished? Because just like Fantasyland, different elements were greenlit at different times, with different existing structures with different amounts of work. In the end, I think it will work out fine. People are coming in droves already to see a half finished area and just as the hype may fade, the centerpiece attraction will keep them coming. As for it competing with transformers, that's like comparing people who are looking for an iPhone versus a Blackberry, different audiences with different wants so why compare them?
As for the new coaster, it's a high capacity roller coaster on the scale of Big Thunder. It's not a dinky, kiddie coaster. Why some keep pointing out things lost, like the plywood low capacity Snow White ride or the oft skipped walk through houses as great losses is beyond logic.
As to why people are complaining as to why the most attended park is getting all the expansion...well it stays number one with change so get over that...
Get over the fact that there is a fantastic restaurant instead of another dark ride. There is simply not enough space for a ride where the restaurant is unless you want a low capacity dark ride the size of Peter Pan.
Just because a land doesn't have a thrill ride doesn't mean it's not what the park needs.
I could go on, and I'm never an angry person or like to argue or call comments stupid, but after working the Grand Reveal, I'm just gonna say that most comments, and even the article, just is silly, stupid and full of logic flaws.
I've just spent the last several days in Fantasyland and what they've done is great! Little Mermaid is a fantastic addition and the double Dumbo spinners was a brilliant decision.
Fantasyland has never really had an E-ticket attraction, so the expansion only improves not lessens the experience that was previously offered. I guess some would argue that "It's A Small World" is the Fantasyland E-ticket.
Rob Pastor, attendance isn't counted for park hoppers based on which park they visit first. That site that reports that is incorrect and that approach would make it impossible to accurately compare the performance of Disney parks against others in the industry with just a single gate. In essence Disney would be handicapping their properties. If a park hopper visits two parks in a day their visit will be recorded once at each park they visit. Re-entries are the only thing that doesn't count in a park's annual attendance. Disneyland attendance is down slightly due to the increased appeal of California Adventure. Attendance is way up at California Adventure obviously because of Cars Land and because of the longer operating hours.
I Respond: Brilliant!
Antartica is opening as a land with shopping, a restaurant, habitats, exhibits and yes and E ticket attraction
I understand things got green lighted at different times but I would be curious as to why Tangled's Area (bathrooms) and Fairytale Hall if planned properly couldn't be open for the 6th...if needed be both projects could have started earlier.
I think most people are hung up on semantics as yesterday was phase 2's grand opening not New Fantasyland
Mulan and Aladdin don't have large sections of the park devoted to them with restaurants, gift shops and meet 'n greets. Beauty & the Beast now has this, but no ride. That's a fail. Guests will see all the trappings and be asking where's the ride? And there will be none.
Losing Mickey and Minnie's house meant losing a sense of place for their meet 'n greets as two of the most important characters in Disney's history. Their walkthroughs were charming and set the stage well for meeting them and understanding the characters better for little (and grown-up) ones.
The Casey train is surrounded by an ugly fence, that's a fail.
The Great Goofini is a downgrade from the Barnstormer which had at least some animatronics. Now it's just a basic kiddie coaster. That's a fail.
The Dwarves coaster is going to disappoint a lot of people from what we know of it so far. Another kiddie coaster with only basic theming. We lost a wonderfully themed and classic dark ride with Snow White for a kiddie coaster. That's a fail.
There's plenty of room for a big e-ticket ride in Fantasyland but they built a restaurant and Photopass meet 'n greet instead to make more $$$. That's a win for the accountants but a big fail for the guests.
There are some truly excellent things they have done with this expansion, but to ignore the bad by putting blinders on and pretending Disney has done everything amazingly well is delusional and irrational.
And over an article written by Robert, no less.
I'm not a Disney 'apologist'. I speak as I find from the perspective of a UK resident who is prepared every 4 years or so to spend a vast amount of money on a couple of weeks in Orlando 'doing' the theme parks. We choose to stay with Disney and spend more time there than anywhere else simply because it offers us more than anywhere else, and generally does it better, (but that's a generalization not a definitive statement). (Oh and by the way we are both middle aged with no kids...)
You said "We lost a wonderfully themed and classic dark ride with Snow White". You are kidding right? Snow White might have been original but it was a sub-midway-haunted-house attraction with cardboard sets that wobbled and it felt like it belonged in a travelling fair. We road it once and thought 'this isn't up to Disney's standards' and never went back. Instead we are going to get an innovative roller coaster that will allow the whole family to ride together, which in case you haven't noticed is the Magic Kingdom's big market. Furthermore it's clear from what has already opened in New Fantasyland that the level of landscaping and detail in the SDMC is going to be exceptional which will transform the whole of Fantasyland into one of the most immersive and completely themed lands in any theme park anywhere in the world.
As for people getting down on Disney for adding a new restaurant (Be My Guest), a new restaurant is EXACTLY what the MK needs. We struggled to find a place to eat - for a big park it's surprisingly short of table service places, particularly as several are given over to character dining. Be My Guest is big, attractive, with a broad appeal, and I see no issue with it at all.
Disney are not perfect, (yes Yeti, we're looking at you), but getting negative about one of their finest pieces of work is just plain silly. It's not about how many attractions they have or whether they are 'E', 'C' or whatever ticket. It's about creating an environment which people, and especially families, want to spend time in and they are bang on the money with this one.
Enough already!
Tony, Are we mourning the loss of cheap animatronic chickens and plywood Snow White because the quality of Dumbo was expanded with shoter wait times and a revolutionary queue and getting a highly themed Snow WHite coaster that has a 40 inch hight requirement and real animatronics?
The whole family could already ride the existing Snow White ride so I don't understand why you believe the new roller coaster will be more amenable to families. It actually won't be since small children won't be allowed on the coaster thus separating famlilies. All the disappointed children whose favorite character is Snow White will not be allowed on her ride. Now there's another fail. In addition, the Snow White ride was not cardboard cutouts, it had sets in real physical space. The haunted forest scene was excellent. It's a shame that you will not be able to ride it again as it was better than any Midway haunted house I've ever been on. If Disney wanted to close a ride to save money, there's plenty of other ripe choices in MK such as Stitch! Disney needs to stop messing with the classic dark rides that made them famous in the first place.
I think it's safe to say that most people visit MK first and foremost for the rides, not for the restaurants and shops. The latter are the supports (and moneymakers) for the former that attract the guests to pay the heavy gate fee. Without the rides and attractions, why not just go to the mall and a Disney store with a Rainforest Cafe? In the new Fantasyland, Disney has built the supports to make the accountants happy, but failed to build the ride to entice guests to pay the gate fee or feel they are getting their money's worth after entering. I'm sure many guests will see all the other B&B trappings and environment and wonder where is the B&B ride? They will assume it will be in the Beast's Castle to find only a restaurant. What a disappointment!
I'm glad Robert posts constructive criticism of Disney and other theme park operators. That is what makes his site worth reading, and he should be applauded, not castigated, for his sincere views and opinions, in addition to the objective news he reports. There are already enough Disney apologists on the Internet who either don't want to rock Disney's boat due to fear of losing journalistic access or perks, or are simply blinded by the magic, even when it's not there. Thank you Robert and TPI, keep up the good work.
And then Mr. Perkins writes: "It actually won't be since small children won't be allowed on the coaster thus separating famlilies. All the disappointed children whose favorite character is Snow White will not be allowed on her ride."
So it's a kid coaster ... but kids won't be "allowed" to ride?
Haters like Mr. Perkins are going to hate. Even when it's directed at an attraction that they have not even experienced.
Oh and here's a video from a family with two very small children riding BTM. The Mine Train will not be a problem for families.
Who cares that the one bathroom area wasn't done! Really?
The progress on the Snow White coaster just this past week was impressive. Within a couple of months the crane will be gone and the exterior of the building will be taking shape to the point that the construction site is a non-issue.
As far as I'm concerned very few if any of the Florida rides are classics. The originals are in at Disneyland in California and those are the classics. Nearly every attraction in Disney's Florida parks is disposable. With the exception of Winnie the Pooh Florida's Fantasyland is filled with replicas.
Todd says: isn't that the point of most discussions on here to speculate and everyone has a right to there opinion and I really hate talking like this in third person.
Really TH I don't know how you do it. You put a picture of Cameron on here and a guy talking about Avatar land saying they are in their very early stages and come back at someone else for there comment. What gives you the right and not him? It's all speculation and least we know more about the seven dwarfs and fantasyland than Avatar.
Any of you Robert haters out there saying oh how dare he question a theme park on here especially Disney. He's been and seen more things than us combined in Theme and Amusement parks because that's his job. He has a right to speculate and more times than not he's right on the money.
Just my two cents but I think that fantasyland falls short of Harry potter. If we are comparing. It doesn't excite anyone in my family about seven dwarfs or the new fantasyland like Transformers, a new mini Springfield/Simpsons land, and a new Harry land will over at Universal will at the same or earlier time frame than the seven dwarfs does. Universal is where we'll be staying and earning my hard earned money coming 2014 because they've earned it. I love that Disney bought out Star Wars and what they are doing with Marvel but frankly there theme parks in Florida need a lot of fixes and new innovations that Universal is doing. What's going in at the other parks in the next two years? I bet it will be 2020 before we even see that Avatar land if at all. What's the rumor of anything going in these parks other than the dwarfs kiddie coaster in the next five years? Nothing and that's a disappointment to have.
I don't think the Fantasyland expansion was Disney's response to Harry Potter. It was clearly done to address their own needs to improve the guest experience at a very busy park. Even mentioning Transformers is so out of context in this discussion. Fantasyland appeals primarily to young children and especially girls. Transformers appeals to a totally different demographic and the same with Harry Potter.
The quality of the overall execution on the new Fantasyland areas is on par with everything Universal has been doing. Disney can still build impressive attractions and themed areas with exceptional detail. Universal has proven they can as well.
You clearly rode a different Snow White attraction to me. It was so ancient you could hear the creaking...
Families today expect rather more than it offered. I think if it had been that good Disney would still be running it....
And yes, it was advertised as 'Snow White's SCARY Adventures' and as such wasn't suitable for younger children...
But I think others have answered your points better than I...
Some small part of me is screaming SUCCESS! Disney has gone from miserly in the new attractions department to magnanimous. Disney and Universal are both kicking butt, and we are the beneficiaries. Yes!
I've got to echo one of James Rao's sentiments: it's a great time to be a theme park fan.
I think 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea would like to have a word with you.
If Snow White had been reworked into a different dark ride: Pinnochio, Mr. Toad 2.0, Sleeping Beauty or something else and instead the Village Haus was closed and converted into the Princess Fairy Tale Hall.
As Be Our Guest and the Tavern have turned this into more of a secondary dining option
And with Cosmic Rays and Columbia Harbor House nearby, Village Haus isn't a real need to have anymore
Heck Tommorrowland Terrace and Diamond Horseshoe don't even open anymore, and Tortuga Tavern is seasonal
Thoughts?
From what we have seen so far in the previews there is very little theming for the new coaster, just a couple of very brief show scenes in the indoor portions. Why could they not have kept both attractions? DL has two Alice attractions so there's already precedent. With this new coaster, why is the Great Goofini even still there? It would have been better to save Mickey and Minnie's house instead. The princesses could have gone into Village Haus since two new eateries just opened making Haus superfluous. Disney has made bad choices in the new Fantasyland presumably due to the suits and accountants. Some good, and even some excellent, things have been done but the Disney-does-no-wrong attitude of the apologists simply beggars belief. Castigating Robert and others for speaking the truth that hurts won't make your denial feel any better.
I'd like to also point out that my three year-old nephew is more than 40-inches tall. He doesn't really like roller coasters just yet because of his age, but in another year he will. This isn't going to divide families. Stop being so dramatic.
Snow White Scary Adventures is no big loss. Most kids, including myself when I was that age, hated that ride. Of all the Fantasyland attractions it was the least ridden and had the shortage wait times.
And lastly Fantasyland finally has enough dining capacity for very busy days and you want them to close one. Your logic is flawed. Be Our Guest is nearly impossible to dine in since demand well exceeds capacity. Village Haus is still needed and Gaston's Tavern is a snack counter, not a restaurant.
On the unpopular note, the Snow White drew some of the lowest attendance, even lower than Stitch. Two rides, both telling the same story, one with plywood cut outs and one with high end annimatronics would be the pinnacle of redundancy.
There is a demand for quick service and full service. I suppose you haven't had much chance to be in the parks to see that all the lines for food places are still long.
As for what is behind Fantasyland...my @%#*$* defense is I opened the new Fantasyland, I work in that area and I know what is back there that you do not know. On that note, just because Disney could build a skyscraper back there if they wanted doesn't mean they should because you want to. Maybe they wanted to focus on other areas besides just fantasyland. Perhaps people here simply are not comprehending that the new coaster is an E-ticket. Perhaps Disney doesn't want to create stupid bottlenecks like they did when they placed Splash next to Thunder. Ultimately, Fantasyland is on the scale they want it to be.
It wasn't suits who pushed for restaurants. If it was them looking for money, there would be more giftshops. It simply was a demand for more dining space.
On a more final note, there are expansion plans for both Frontierland and Tomorrowland. I'm pretty damn happy with the way Fantasyland is turning out, but I think other areas need more work and know it is coming, so lets share some of the funds and get the rest of the park bad ass too.
On and even more final note...we have every right to call Robert out on his criticism. He doesn't make sense. The problem isn't starting the construction at the same time and ending at the same time. The phasing wasn't a choice just because they wanted to. Plans changed, different projects started at different levels, some with dealing with existing structures and some not. Trying to keep people happy, they tried to keep Snow White open as long as they could, and open others as soon as they could. The space isn't compact as WWOHP or isn't all from scratch in a flat parking lot like Cars Land. Already Mermaid was sitting finished inside for a year and in fact the animatronics suffered from not moving.Projects like Avatar land won't be phased because it doesn't need to be like Fantasyland. And The new coaster will open sooner than 2014.
Why is Tommorrowland Terrace always closed and why is Tortuga Tavern Seasonal?
Why is Diamond Horseshoe closed?
An my issue with the opening is in the wording as two attractions not one are still not open.
If it had been Beauty and The Beast and Little Mermaid Grand opening celebration this would be a mute point.
I do believe that 7 Dawrfs is going to be more Big Thunder than Goofy and I don't mourn the lose of Snow White, I mourn the loss of a ride area for a meet and greet.
And let's be honest the Tangled area construction could have been done regardless of when it was green lit.
And beyond that and the timing issues of construction I think we all can agree its best when have your grand opening for something to have actually completed building it first.
And kudos to Mr. Niles for going to the well one more time and getting a few more miles out of an extremely tired Universal vs. Disney debate. And just in time for Christmas too!! ;)
The Great Goofini? OK, but nothing really spectacular. Dueling Dumbos is nice, but other than doubling capacity, not sure what there is to be excited over. They had the opportunity to do something really interesting, but settled for a playground under the big top. Yawn.
After all of the hype about Under The Sea, I expected much more. Nothing new or exciting here. Frankly, the musical at DHS is better. Enchanted Tales with Belle? Down two of the 3 times we tried to go and had a 45 minute wait the third time.
Gastons and Be Our Guest look to be great additions. However, I predict that within 6 months the suits will rip up the menu from Imagineering and replace them with the same burgers, fries, and turkey legs that the rest of the park pushes at us as a matter of economy. Given the way that all of restaurants in MK regress to the mean, I fear for any menu that dares to be different.
Worst fail? Opening New Fantasyland as 2 separate pieces which don't connect. Seriously, making it hard to go from the "circus world" to Belle/Ariel land confuses the heck out of everyone. Saw a lot of people totally confused about how to get to Under The Sea. A little signage would help, Team Disney.
For the record, we have annual passes to both Disney and Universal. We really like Disney. But... Universal has the momentum and Disney needs to wake up. Promising Avatar (someday) doesn't make up for the lack of improvements to EP, MK, and DHS. (and no, Test Track 2.0 isn't a significant improvement).
The issue is Disney's marketing since until your post haven't heard any comment by Disney that its not the Grand Opening
Also since Walt Disney World's own Facebook page uses the term "Grand Opening" on more than one post
I'm thinking you authority on this issue is in question
I'm going put also on Disney when the billboard you buy says "New Fantasyland" you've created its a grand opening
There is no way you were at the park if you say this. The walkway are continuous. It's impossible to miss it and impossible to get confused.
Especially the part where he writes: "I love what Disney's done with New Fantasyland - so far."
That assessment seems a contrast to the collective perspective of those at the firm Perkins, Donahue, Ackerman & Associates.
But regardless of where you fall in this rich and extraordinary TPI discussion ... It's Sunday ... It's Orlando ... And I'm goin' to Disney World! :o)
Shipping cost on expidted orders for supplies
Overtime for labor
Supply cost for equipment being priotized from distributors
Utilty cost from afterhours construction
Insurance rates are compounded during expedited construction
And the biggest one is related to capitalized expenses, via the corporate tax code allows companies to virtual write off profit if it is re-invested in capitalized items for the business but they have to be in the proper ratio
Meaning just because you have a billion dollars in the bank you only want to spend the proper ratio per quarter/year as you can save via accounting up 36% of your expenditures on the project
Meaning Disney could save up to 100 million by spreading it out, while Universal's business plan seems to be not to save the money on tax breaks but instead recoup it via sales
Shipping cost on expidted orders for supplies
Overtime for labor
Supply cost for equipment being priotized from distributors
Utilty cost from afterhours construction
Insurance rates are compounded during expedited construction
And the biggest one is related to capitalized expenses, via the corporate tax code allows companies to virtual write off profit if it is re-invested in capitalized items for the business but they have to be in the proper ratio
Meaning just because you have a billion dollars in the bank you only want to spend the proper ratio per quarter/year as you can save via accounting up 36% of your expenditures on the project
Meaning Disney could save up to 100 million by spreading it out, while Universal's business plan seems to be not to save the money on tax breaks but instead recoup it via sales
I do plan on waiting until 2014 when it is completed to go back and get the full new fantasyland experience, but I invite others who would like to go ahead and see what is there now to go so you will not hopefully not rush back when I am there in and be standing in my way and in front of me in line (kidding)....... lol.
Snow White's ride and the Dwarves coaster will not be telling the same story. They will be telling two very different facets of a story. From what has been released about the coaster thus far, it will be a short ride with a couple of mine scenes. I hope it will be much more, but I'm afraid come 2014 many of you will be disappointed when it is not the E-ticket ride you were expecting. I hope I'm proven wrong though. There's no reason to have the Great Goofini when there will be this comparable coaster as well. And we lose a classic dark ride dedicated to a popular and historic character. Instead of putting a princess meet 'n greet, they could at least replace Snow White's ride with another dark ride instead.
Yes, you have the right to call out Robert's arguments and opinions for criticism but it is philistine to tell him basically to pipe down and only be a stenographer for public relations 'news' releases. Robert's viewpoints and writing are two of the biggest strengths of the site.
Some of the things done in New Fantasyland is superb, the problem is Disney shuffled the wrong attractions and neglected to put in the uber Beauty & the Beast dark ride that should have been its centerpiece.
I think that fantasy land has not overall been well received yes the Disney fans love it because it is an expansion of their concept of what the Magic Kingdom should be.
The non Disney fans are looking at it for what it really brings to the table and the honest answer is more of the same ....so they are looking at it as a fail and a big one.
The real question is what are the children its aimed at going to be thinking ?
Well I dont think children of today are going to be impressed by dueling Dumbo's most wont know who Dumbo is
They definatley wont appreciate fancy restaurants every kid prefers fast food and giant fizzy drinks to sitting around waiting for table service
They boys wont be pushed by the little Mermaid and alot of the girls wont know who she is(and thats a fair comment kids today watch 3D Pixar or Dreamworks even Disney have given up the ghost on hand drawn movies)
As to the SDMT well I have no doubt it will be enjoyed but I think it will fade into the background noise of everything else Orlando has to offer and it wont be what the kids are talking about after their holiday( and thats important)
So thats my two cents for Disney fans its more of the same and a welcome expasion to stuff they allready love to everyone else its a weak extension that offers noting new and if it was dropped into Universal or Sea World it would be slated by the same Disney fans who are now defending it, It works in the Magic Kingdom just...
One last point as to the disjointed building process Both Seaworld and Universal amd also Disneyland seem to be able to plan well enough to build a Land where everything opens at the same time their is no excuse for DisneyWorld's piece-meal approach
"Well I dont think children of today are going to be impressed by dueling Dumbo's most wont know who Dumbo is"
I respond:
Um, yeah they do.
Tom Cunningham said,
"They boys wont be pushed by the little Mermaid and alot of the girls wont know who she is(and thats a fair comment kids today watch 3D Pixar or Dreamworks even Disney have given up the ghost on hand drawn movies)"
I respond:
Is this some kind of joke? Disney Princesses are extremely popular with girls.
I think you have misunderstood what the Seven Dwarves coaster is. There have been a couple of video releases showing virtual versions of parts of the ride but they only show only small parts of the overall attraction. If you visit the Walt Disney: One Man's Dream, attraction at Hollywood studios there is a model of New Fantasyland there that shows the whole of the SDMT attraction. It's nothing like the Goofini ride. The latter is a 45 second mini-coaster. SDMT is going to be several minutes in duration with a lengthy dark-ride segment, two separate lift hills and therefore two high-speed coaster sections covering the whole area currently fenced off. It's at least as big as Big Thunder Mountain and possibly bigger in footprint. It's not going to as extreme as Harry Potter but it's going to be every bit as big and impressive as Radiator Springs Racers which is easily an E-Ticket...
@Tom Cunningham:
I think you're also misunderstanding the appeal of the classic Disney attractions and rides.
"Well I don't think children of today are going to be impressed by dueling Dumbo's most wont know who Dumbo is"
The lines for these rides would suggest otherwise. Disney 'duelled' Dumbo precisely because it's so popular.
They aren't trying to attract people away from Universal. Different market. What they are doing is improving the experience for their core market and they are achieving that aim in spades...
"Well I dont think children of today are going to be impressed by dueling Dumbo's most wont know who Dumbo is"
Dumbo is the one attraction with consistently the longest lines in Fantasyland at MK and DL. Demand for Dumbo far exceeds capacity and kids love the ride. My nephews would ride it all day long if the lines were short enough.
Disney didn't double the capacity because kids today don't know who Dumbo is. They doubled the capacity because demand remains so great! Clearly, kids today know enough about Dumbo.
"They boys wont be pushed by the little Mermaid and alot of the girls wont know who she is(and thats a fair comment kids today watch 3D Pixar or Dreamworks even Disney have given up the ghost on hand drawn movies)"
Again, with my generation now having kids my friends who are becoming parents are sharing the movies they loved as kids with their children and The Little Mermaid is very relevant. It's a princess film as well and those princesses are very in right now. I'll also add that my three nephews loved The Little Mermaid ride at DCA. We rode it three times in a row. The only other ride we rode more was Winnie The Pooh which we did a marathon six consecutive rides on.
I was looking forward to more the "inside scoop" about how Disney never said this was a GRAND OPENING
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