Can Elon Musk dig Universal Orlando out of an Epic problem?
I long ago stopped keeping count of the number of projects and developments that I have written about here at Theme Park Insider. But I do know that a large percentage of those projects never ended up happening.
That experience has helped teach me to spot a doomed idea pretty much from its start. (Anyone remember that billion-dollar theme park in rural Oklahoma?) Anyway, for some reason I thought it relevant to mention this context before I get into today's news.
A special Florida district that oversees development around the Universal Orlando Resort, The Shingle Creek Transit and Utility Community Development District, has chosen to begin negotiations with The Boring Company for a new transportation solution to link CityWalk with the new Epic Universe theme park.
Universal lacked the space for a third theme park on its original Orlando campus, so it built Epic Universe on a new "south campus" a little over two miles away. But those 2.5 miles are not empty space. Interstate 4 plus multiple commercial structures, roads, and ponds stand in the way. That leaves Universal to run buses on local streets to connect its two locations, which can take 15-20 minutes, depending upon traffic.
The only way to make that connection faster is to find a way over or under all the stands in between the two sites.
The Shingle Creek board solicited Requests for Qualifications from three companies to find ways to do that. Of the three, it has selected The Boring Company as the most qualified and will begin negotiations. The Boring Company is Elon Musk's tunneling business that built the Las Vegas Convention Center Loop. That tunnel runs for 1.7 miles underneath busy Las Vegas streets.
If Universal could get the same thing in Orlando, that would solve the resort's transportation challenge. But while Las Vegas provides a relatively simple environment for digging a tunnel, Orlando provides what might be the most complex, with a high water table and porous rock.
The Boring Company eventually delivered the Vegas tunnel at a relatively low cost, but it did so while getting itself named to a worker advocacy group's list of the "Dirty Dozen" worst companies in America for workplace safety.
And then there is Musk. Not even getting into the man's deeply troubling personal views, Musk is the Harold Hill of tech. He has developed a reputation for overpromising and under-delivering, building stock value by convincing just enough investors and customers that his underperforming products are actually the next great thing.
So pardon me for viewing this project with great skepticism. That said, Universal does not need a two-plus mile tunnel connecting its parks. It just needs to tunnel under or bridge over the obstacles that prevent it from running surface-level dedicated bus lanes. Where no such obstacles exist, the bus lanes can run at surface level. (I assume that Universal would just run electric buses on this route, rather than spending way more money for some form of railway.)
The district board could decide that The Boring Company's proposal is not feasible and reopen the project for bids. If it goes ahead, then it would pay for the project with an assessment that Universal would pay - so I cannot image that Universal is not going to be a party in this decision at some point.
Replies (29)
I really wouldn't mind a tunnel connecting city walk and Epic Universe. It's not feasible but I think it'd be cool.
I really don't understand this. At most a system like this might save 5-10 minutes, though it would take buses off surface streets to remove those additional vehicles from the surface grid.
Personally, I'm having a hard time understanding how this is a better option than building an automated peoplemover on an elevated track above Kirkman Rd. Yes, that would be an expensive undertaking, but it would be higher capacity, probably require less staffing, and get guests between both sections in under ten minutes.
Zarex - It isn't about solving Orlando traffic. It's about getting UO customers between two campuses.
Russell - Are we sure they'd use buses? Why wouldn't they keep the same "infrastructure" as the Vegas loop, and use Teslas?
This isn't about saving time (or as Zarex wants...solving traffic.) This is about perception of a unified, cohesive experience of an interconnected (though not physically connected) campus. This site spends copious amounts of print inches talking about immersive experiences. I can understand why UO doesn't want to pack people on a bus on surface streets (or worse yet into their own cars) and drive them past $2.99 T-shirt shops and the world's largest McDonald's. (Yes, I know that isn't the exact route before anyone points it out, I am using it as an example.) This is about a unified UO where you don't have to leave the "Universal bubble." The genius of this, if it could even be done geologically, is that their "bubble" would be more of a bubble that the "Disney bubble" because their "roadway" would not have other vehicles, unlike Disney.
Robert - Yes, much like Harold Hill his companies have brought e-payment to the masses, normalized electric cars for the masses while making a profit (how big was that Stellantis write down last week for electric vehicles), revolutionized reusable space travel (and rescued our astronauts), and I am not even mentioning what the Boring Company was able to accomplish in Vegas. Methinks this post might have been just a tad different 18 months ago.
MLB - You used the words "solving" twice in regards to my post, which is not a word I used or even implied in regards to Orlando traffic. The Vegas Loop is a horrible failure in Las Vegas and it would be foolish for Orlando to spend precious resources on a moist car tunnel. Mr. Musk's blatant white supremacist ideology has nothing to do my criticism of this terrible awful idea.
Hmmm...it would be beyond cool if they did this and themed different sections of the trip as portals to the lands your going to see. Definitely an expense that wouldn't be free but still super cool even if it was cheap like the little dioramas at the end of space mountain!
Wouldn’t it just make more sense to have a bus/transit lane or guided bussway?
Simple answer NO - He promised Huge savings to the taxpayer only to cut needed programs to the poor. Then, ran away.
Promised Auto pilot cars that still have not been fully developed. Mars, not even close.
SO no I have no faith in the entitled rich kid who ran away from South Africa to hide in Canada only to back door his way to the USA.
Sorry Not sorry... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
How about looking at Chicago. Build a raised Train system. How about the Monorail Disney system...?
But I am not sure why this is needed? If you want to visit Epic- it is a day visit not just a few hours. so Why is this needed..
Full disclosure - I am short TSLA...
"Not even getting into the man's deeply troubling personal views"
Kettle, meet pot.
Hopefully it all goes well for Universal, thanks to or in spite of Elon Musk.
Brian - You're using Mars...MARS as an argument against?!?! Something the US Government is probably further away from achieving on its own today than at any points since the 70's! He's one guy with private companies, but HE is supposed to achieve something that let's see: the US Government, the Chinese Government, the Russian Government, the EU... you can see where I am going with this!?!?!?
As a self-described space geek, and a kid who went to Space Camp in Huntsville, AL when I was younger, I know a thing or two. The fact that he singlehandedly with his company hasn't gotten us to MARS is definitely something that should be used against him. Hell... he hasn't gotten us to Saturn either, or out of this solar system. But he has figured out global communications (Starlink) and reusable space travel. The other space travel companies are years behind. Oh, and he can do something that the almighty government can't do... actually get to space to rescue our astronauts. But, yeah... he hasn't gotten us to MARS! Good grief.
I have another take on a subterranean link between between City Walk and EU. If Universal is going to invest in something like this AND the problem with water can be solved, I believe they would make it an attraction similar to the train between Island and UO.
This would solve multiple problems (maintaining the "unified universal orlando experience", moving what could be a significant number of people, and provide a themed experience that many would take just to experience.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
Paris expanded it's metro infrastructure with cable cars as they hardly take up any space and are clean, repayable and continues transport but much, much cheaper than a metro line.
The Boring Company exists to lure city/state governments into accepting their unrealistically low bids for public transit projects, then under deliver (or not deliver at all) and make sure that single family vehicles remain the dominant method of transit. It is transparently done by a man whose wealth depends on the supremacy of the single family vehicle. They had to build the Vegas loop so they had something to point to when people want proof they can do a job. Name a couple other big Boring projects that have come to fruition in their 9 years of existence…
This will never get built.
talking about things that never got built, let's reference the high speed rail in California for 146 billion. curious where that money went.
biggest problem with epic universe is that the park, has not enough to do. At most it's a 1 day park. I was there in September. did all rides by 3 pm. there just isn't enough to do. if your going to to epic just do 1 day there. there is no reason to do multiple days there
The way I see it - Elon has failed many times. He ran away to avoid doing just two years of service.. Just Two short years. What a coward. I can’t back anyone that ran away or dodged a draft.
Then you MLB were invited to the WH, you were promised a Filet dinner, they served you Tripe but assured you it was Filet, a new kind of filet, a new type of cow approved by RFK jr himself.
Then you went for a second visit a month later, again promised Filet and received Tripe, they once again told you it was a special new Filet and you once again ate it up with joy.
You see you are easily fooled by men who you admire, even though they feed you Tripe and lie about it. But you eat it up and make yourself swallow the BS.
Shelon and Trump have stolen more from the US than anyone ever in the History of the planet.
Tesla and SpaceX would be out of business except the US Gov’t bailed him out. We should have let them fail like Lehman Brothers..
Space X funded by the US taxpayer - you should thank yourself.
Enjoy the Tripe my friend.
Brain - What a convoluted, some might say strange, story you just shared.
SpaceX was not bailed out, they are a government contractor. I get that you googled and received biased stories from CNN and WaPo, two very middle of the road media sources. (insert eye roll.) SpaceX has been the primary "payload delivery service" for the US Government and American business. As such, they have received government contracts, you know for services rendered. I know for some people the concept of receiving payment for work or services rendered is a foreign concept.
Tesla received a $465 million loan from the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) in 2010. This low-interest loan, used for Model S development, was fully repaid with interest nine years ahead of schedule in 2013. This is something you can't say about GM did get bailed out and Obama forgave a huge percentage of their obligation.
If SpaceX had "failed" as you assert, the country would not have been able to deliver satellites to space. I also find it funny how the left has turned on Teslas...you all wanted to force us to buy electric vehicles just a couple of short years ago, now you're setting them on fire.
Thank you, MLB. You just wrote what I've been thinking since the original post on this thread.
The ad hominem attacks on this site do far more damage to the position of the poster than they do to the target of the attacks. When someone disagrees with an idea or concept and heavily flavors their position with expressions of disagreement with their target's personality or political views, then a considerable portion of the readers start filtering the facts, and conversation and persuasion pretty much end.
Now, if you want to stay in your bubble and listen to the beautiful echo of your own voice, by all means please continue. But if you want to reach people outside your echo chamber, then try to present your thoughts on the issue without contaminating your argument with politics and personalities.
And I’d like to thank Robert and Brian for refusing to remain silent for the comfort of those who inflicted this fascist regime on our country either out of mind numbing ignorance or base cruelty. Or both. If snowflakes can’t stand to read bad things about Epstein’s Best Bud or his white supremacist supporters, there are plenty of propaganda sites, like FOX, that sing the praises of Dear Leader.
I am just wondering since you turned a theme park website into political nonsense, just wondering your stance when Obama deported 3 million people and 56 died while being held under ice? I will wait. Bill Clinton was at the island 27 times and Bill Gates lost his family and have his fortune because he couldn't stop going to that island. so if you want this to be a political website, which is pointless then do that.
I am just wondering since you turned a theme park website into political nonsense, just wondering your stance when Obama deported 3 million people and 56 died while being held under ice? I will wait. Bill Clinton was at the island 27 times and Bill Gates lost his family and have his fortune because he couldn't stop going to that island. so if you want this to be a political website, which is pointless then do that.
You know how I know I am not in a cult? I want EVERYONE who participated in Epstein’s child sex trafficking ring to be locked up, not only those who didn’t pay a bribe to Dear Leader to get themselves redacted.
We have somehow went from a tunnel connecting two Universal properties (a neat prospect, if somewhat unfeasible and I question the possibility due to the geology) to Epstein Island and white supremists. It's like a broken dang record. Admittedly, Robert opened that door in his initial article, turning a fanciful idea that I am not sure is even possible, into a political post because the left no longer likes Musk. Much like John Kerry in a debate, the left was for Musk before they were against him.
They could box truck it ala the Star Cruiser.
You are more than welcome Zarex. I am here for you.
MLB and Tim - is it hard to type while wearing a bib to collect all the drool? HAHAHAHAHAAHAH - Do you have to change it often or does Mother do it for you?
Shelon said he was going to save us $2 trillion and failed, ran away, hid. Did nothing he promised he would accomplish…
Shelon said he was going Broke and would have to close Tsla and SpaceX if it were not for the US Gov’t bailing him out. Those were his words not Mine.. So I guess you MLB should be running Both TSLA and SpaceX since you know more about them than Elon because you went to space camp. And obviously Elon was wrong about the finances for each company.
And Yes Shelon ran away from South Africa because he would have to serve two short years. He is not an honorable man.
Has somewhere between 8 to 12 kids and no relationships?
And you admire him? HAHAHAAHA You are weak and pathetic.
And please by all means eat more Tripe after seeing the Melania documentary while sending money to Trumps valentines day card…
Or did you also Beg to go to the wildest party at Epstein Island just like Shelon did.
MLB does basic google searches and knows everything. Interested in stock - ask MLB he will tell you what price, maybe you want a car, again ask MLB to do his “basic internet search” where he will quickly tell you what price to pay. I heard Robert Duval had to ask MLB if it was OK to die since MLB knows all…
In the year of the Horse you are just a little pony.
Sarah Warner - You win the best comment contest
Yes, thank you, Sarah!
And on another note I have a question for Brian.
Is it a learned skill or a God-given gift to be able to sit in Conspiracy Theory Central and channel D-Day Simpson while passing out tips on the Dark Web on the best materials to line the tin foil hat with?
I'm sure it's a burden that only a few special people can bear. ;)
Well said, Tim!
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Ray Delahanty has an excellent analysis of the Las Vegas Loop on his CityNerd You Tube Channel. A one way tunnel moving passengers between City Walk and Epic in small vehicles isn't going to make a dent in Orlando traffic. And while it certainly should be improved, the existing 15-20 minute bus trip between the two campuses is reasonable by Orlando theme park standards.
I would like to see Kabletown drop a few bucks on an improved connection between Stella Nova, Terra Luna, and the nearby convention center. Decent pedestrian infrastructure was added last year, but you have to walk through an employee restricted area to access Universal Boulevard on foot. It's a challenge to get from one hotel to another safely and that can be fixed without invoking Elon.