What's Wrong with Vaccine Passports?
Like millions of Los Angeles County residents who have been vaccinated fully against Covid-19, I now again need to wear a mask while inside offices, stores, theaters and other indoor destinations - including at Universal Studios Hollywood and Six Flags Magic Mountain. The county reinstated its mask mandate because of rising infection rates, but there was another way to protect residents and visitors from the continued threat of Covid-19.
Covid is coming back across the United States, with rising cases rates in almost every state and a 66% rise in cases in the past week, according to the Washington Post. While California's seven-day-average new case rate pretty much matches the national average, four states - including Florida - have new case averages surging over 30 per 100,000 residents.
That gives community leaders one of three choices:
1. Do nothing. Everyone ages 12 and older has the opportunity to get vaccinated now. If you choose not to get vaccinated and end up getting Covid, that's on you. Why should communities restrict people who have chosen to protect themselves by getting vaccinated to help protect those who haven't?
The problem with this argument is that some people with immune systems problems cannot be vaccinated and remain at risk while Covid is spreading within their community. So it's not just the "guilty" getting sick. Kids ages 11 and under are not yet eligible for the vaccine, either. And while hospitalization and death rates among the young remain minuscule next to those for older patients, they do not stand at zero.
In addition, continued community spread of Covid allows the virus to continue to mutate. That creates the potential for new variants that might be able to break through vaccines' protection, leaving vaccinated people at greater risk for hospitalization and death.
Finally, the do-nothing approach is cruel. I don't care if you're the biggest anti-vaxxer in the country - no one deserves to suffer and die from this disease. Kind communities do what they can to protect those who cannot, or even will not, protect themselves.
2. Bring back masks and other preventive measures. The CDC policy has been that unvaccinated people should continue to wear masks, even if a community is not requiring vaccinated people to do that. But - as many of us predicted - the lifting of mask mandates led to unvaccinated people taking off their masks as well, clearing the way for a resurgence of Covid-19.
LA County is bringing back the mask mandate as a heavy-handed way of getting the unvaccinated masked up in public again. So far, no one seems to be talking about bringing back capacity restrictions for indoor restaurants and theaters where people eat while not wearing masks. But that could be the logical next step should case rates continue to rise. As a fully vaccinated person, I say... ugh.
3. Require proof of vaccination to avoid the rules in (2). Want to help slow the spread of Covid and reduce the risk of new variants while not restricting people who have been vaccinated? Here is your solution.
Treat vaccination as the ticket out of quarantine. Show proof of vaccination and you can go to bars, clubs, concerts, games, theaters, restaurants, and yes, theme parks. Show proof of vaccination and you can get on a plane to wherever you want. But if you choose not to get vaccinated, then it's back to the "stay at home" order for you. No clubs, restaurants, arenas, theaters, or theme parks for you. Go to the grocery or pharmacy only during special hours when everyone is required to wear masks and practice distancing. No shopping at the mall or eating out. It's delivery or nothing.
Trouble is, the United States has no ready-to-implement nationwide system to support so-called vaccine passports - just flimsy paper vaccine certificates that can be faked, not to mention easily lost or damaged. And what about kids? Should vaccinated parents have to remain in quarantine because their children can't get vaccines yet?
Requiring a recent negative Covid test in lieu of vaccination could provide a way out of that problem, and that is what France is doing with its recently announced Health Pass program. When France announced it was ditching the honor system and would require proof of vaccination to get into restaurants, malls, trains, and attractions, demand for vaccine appointments surged. (Want to visit Disneyland Paris? You will need that Health Pass.) Now Britain is doing the same for nightclubs and other popular venues in the hope of getting more young people vaccinated there.
No one would be forcing anyone to get a vaccine under a vaccine pass system. But the consequences of not getting vaccinated would fall solely upon those whose movement would be restricted instead of falling upon the entire community, as is now the case.
Of course, selfish people never want to take responsibility for anything, and many politicians have made a career in pandering to selfish people, so that is why we see so many of them railing against "vaccine passports." Yet those politicians know selfishness can be played to the public's advantage, too. I will bet you that many Americans who now are refusing to get vaccinated on partisan grounds would decide to get the jab in order to eat out and travel again. Just like they have been in France.
Yes, checking for proof of vaccination would be a pain for countless businesses and venues. But that's far less of a pain than having to close shop again. Some venues are canceling events again in the Los Angeles area due to the new mask mandate. The US could use a centralized, national app for proving vaccination and testing status, like those implemented in other countries. Unfortunately, America's decentralized federal system of government makes developing such as system anytime soon pretty tough.
That said, developing a nationwide vaccine pass system offers what might be our best hope to end the spread of this disease in the United States. Lotteries, giveaways, and PR stunts have not moved enough Americans to get vaccinated to get us to herd immunity. Yet no compassionate person wants to take the risk of allowing even more deadly Covid variants to evolve while thousands more Americans die unnecessarily. America needs a better solution than its status quo, and I think it's time for us to start talking more seriously about vaccine passes as that potential solution.
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Replies (35)
I am for vaccine passports as well. I think they should be used to also allow for those of us who are fully vaccinated who are willing to show proof to be able to go to not only theme parks, but schools, stores, movies and concerts unmasked. The only setting I think fully vaccinated people should have to wear masks at this time is medical or at senior assisted housing places.
On a side note I was at Disneyland and California Adventure this weekend. Made me a bit uneasy as upwards of 80% of guests were unmasked in indoor, non socially distanced areas. My uneasiness was not my fear that I or my two vaccinated young adult children could catch Covid and die as we are fully vaccinated, but what a super-spreader place theme parks can be in terms of indoor spaces if unvaccinated mingle unmasked in tight and non-socially distanced spaces. Not sure of the legality of it, but would be nice if theme parks/movie theaters/ concert venues could require masks for all in indoor spaces who do no-show proof of vaccination and wrist band the rest of us who show proof we are fully vaccinated and allow vaccinated to go mask free.
So segregation is the answer? Maybe individuals that are not vaccinated could wear a star or other symbol on their clothes that signifies their undesired status?
There should be a federal mask mandate until at least 75% of the population is vaccinated. Yet another thing that Biden ran on and dropped immediately. I got a refund for my local Six Flags after I stayed at the security gate and watched hundreds of unmasked kids between 2-12 come in literally next to a sign that says all guests 2-12 must wear a mask. Not a single security guard asked a parent for their child to abide by the rule. A week after I got the refund my friends took their kids to the park and the entire family got sick. No thanks. Not for any theme park, especially not a Six Flags.
I see no issue with vaccine passports as it pertains to theme parks. Going to a theme park is not a right, it is a luxury that you can live without. If you are not willing to do your part and get vaccinated, I have no problem with Disney denying you entry until the pandemic is over. I can in part understand why this "segregation" might be problematic in other facets of society, but in the entertainment business I think companies can do whatever they want. I'm sure Disney would still be packed every day.
I don't support the idea of vaccine passports and don't trust that governments who haven't been the most responsible with their power won't abuse it, as surrendering that amount of control could lead to some very scary places very fast. That said, I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that it may be necessary to enforce some sort of vaccine control in order for this pandemic to end, as it seems the general population is unwilling to act in a reasonable and responsible manner. However, any system put in place should not be used to determine eligibility for entry, but rather to determine conditions on entry. For example, I'd be against a system that prohibited unvaccinated guests at a theme park outright (unless it was the park's decision independent of any government influence), but would support one that required those who choose not to get vaccinated to wear a mask for the duration of their visit. I understand that some may have their own reasons for choosing not to get the shot and I don't believe they should be forced to, but I do believe choices have consequences and it's fair to impose additional requirements on those who choose not to do so.
Also, of the three options, I would say two is less desirable than one not because I'm in favor of those causing the problems getting theirs, but because it feels like like a wild overreaction made without truly considering where the problem lies and likely won't do a whole lot but discourage people even more.
Nice try Keith but that's not remotely a good analogy. First (and least), nobody would be "wearing stars" on their clothes because nobody unvaccinated would be allowed at the park. And that's hardly unprecedented. You have to be 16 to drive a car. You have to be 21 to buy alcohol. Kids have to be a certain weight to move from a car seat into a seat belt. Hell, you have to be a certain height to RIDE THEME PARK RIDES. Do you think people under the height limit are being "segregated"? All of these things are restrictions placed on activities in order to keep them safe. Things that keep people safe are GOOD. Including a vaccine proof to enter a place with lots of people.
When I was a kid, vaccine passports were called immunization records and no one had a problem with that name.
As someone who has traveled outside the US and went to a college that required certain vaccinations before attending, I see no problem in implementing a vaccine passport system in the US.
Sorry Keith, but that's a completely incongruous analogy.
Not getting vaccinated is not a heritage, or a race, or a creed or an ethnic history. It's a choice. And choices have consequences.
That's the way it is in the grown up world.
I have no problem with people making the free-will choice not to get vaccinated. I think its wrong, but it should be a free choice, and don't discourage that. But I am getting sick of people whining that they don't want to suffer any repercussions from their poor ability to make good choices.
Let those of us who are socially responsible enjoy the full social rewards. Let those who choose to be limited in their social thinking, be limited in their societal rewards.
B Goodwin, similar statements were made of individuals that first contracted the AIDS virus in the early 80s, “...choices have consequences...I am getting sick of people whining that they don't want to suffer any repercussions from their poor ability to make good choices. Let those of us who are socially responsible enjoy the full social rewards. Let those who choose to be limited in their social thinking, be limited in their societal rewards.”
ryansdavis, so you would say to unvaccinated individuals that don’t have the virus and don’t have a vaccination passport, “Sorry, you can’t enter this public establishment” or “Sorry, you can’t ride on this public transportation” or “Sorry, you can’t eat here” or “Sorry, you can’t leave your home”?
That very much is segregation.
I live in France and we only have 50% of the 12+ age group fully vaccinated, which is far from the 80%+ needed to keep the virus under control (according to research institutes).
Ive seen a lot of people around not willing to be vaccinated but none of them has had a rational/logic/valid (not to mention altruistic) argument so far.
The vaccine pass is therefore much needed and I reckon many countries will have it soon. It's time we got this disease under control.
Why does the media always like to point out the rise in cases without point out the death rates are continuing to fall?
@Agustin: do you carry your childhood vaccination records with you? No?
AJ has it right when he says not to trust the government. We saw last week how hypocritical some liberal government officials from Texas were boarding a plane, proudly taking a group picture without masks, and at least three of them have tested positive since then.
Vaccines are great and all, however the idea of a vaccine passport is a horrid idea. There are hundreds of thousands of us who cannot take vaccines, due to either ending up with life altering side effects (permanent paralysis called Guillon-Barae(sp?) syndrome (which now the JJ vaccine is being linked to) or death. Hard pass.
Yet, telling those of us we have to stay home the rest of our lives isn’t a life at all. We’re not f’ing Nazi Germany and this is a very slippery slope. Every new mandate we except is a step down a dark path to eventually everyone losing their freedoms.
So the choice according to you is - live freely and die, or stay home and watch as everyone gets to experience the freedoms given to us by the Almighty.
Thanks but no.
The shot is supposed to protect those who took it. Those who don’t get the shot, if they get Covid, aren’t any threat to those who’ve had it. And those who’ve had the shot aren’t a threat to us. That’s how it works. The new delta variant, from my understanding, is more spreadable but a lot weaker.
Also, if one takes their daily vitamins including D3 and zinc, and eats healthy meals, or a balanced meal, then we won’t get sick. That’s science.
If someone is okay with the risk of getting Covid, that’s on them.
The recovery rate is extremely high, and it’s proven through science (there’s that word again, that Democrats don’t seem to understand), that naturally created antibodies are more effective than the ones from the shot.
Moving on…
“That’s science”
No, that’s why the pandemic is ongoing.
Get the shot.
People evoking Nazi Germany and wearing stars on their clothing have clearly never actually endured any real persecution in their lives.
To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin,
‘Those that would give up essential liberties to purchase temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety.”
That being said, I have been vaccinated and encourage anyone else who can do safely do.
Now, governments are by their very nature easily corrupted, as they say absolute power corrupts absolutely. I hate the concept of a vaccine passport because it is the next step to blocking freedom of movement. If a person for health or religious reasons who cannot be vaccinated wishes to travel from one state to another and is blocked for the fact they don’t have their papers it becomes rather worrisome. It can easily become a VERY slippery slope.
However, if Disney or any other private company needs to see some proof, then in my opinion, their house their rules.
@AJ Hummel, how would theme parks be able to keep check on unvaccinated guests, though? Being able to trust people to act sensibly and do the right thing is a very nice thought, but this pandemic has shown us again and again that a lot of people just don’t care. So, as soon as they’re through the turnstiles, what would be stopping them from removing their face mask and pretending that they’re good to go?
Another great article, thank you. As this board proves, we wouldn't have to devise solutions like a vaccine passport if a third of our society wasn't hopelessly brainwashed by the false propaganda being served to them by Rupert Murdoch and other one-percenters who profit from chaos.
I mean, if you truly believe that being required to be vaccinated--as all Americans have been for decades--is akin to being persecuted by the Nazis well, haha, you need to turn off the far-right lies squawking in your ear and go outside and feel the sunshine on your face. Because you're not just wrong, you're absurdly wrong, you're embarrassing yourself, and your selfish BS is getting innocent children hurt. The little kids at my children's elementary school know better than you.
You can't go to first grade without your measles vaccination; you can't go to Disneyland without your COVID vaccination, it's just that easy.
And as for the notion that requiring essential vaccinations is going to somehow lead to a restraint of our freedoms, sigh, you can't go in a restaurant without shoes; you can't smoke in a hospital; you can't spit on the floor in the mall and on and on and on. Maintaining freedom for everyone means keeping society safe, so no, you're not allowed to swan around infecting the rest of us because you have a paranoid world view.
Honestly, there has to be some middle ground between "I'm a bit concerned over having a vaccine passport" and "this is literally Nazi Germany."
There's no middle ground between reasonable thought and facially absurd political propaganda. Put another way, you can't rationalize an irrational situation, and the far right's self-serving opposition to the vaccine is just that, irrational, founded in fantasy and fear like so much of their purposefully myopic worldview.
They should all go live in Margaritaville with their clown king, or maybe in Australia with their thought leader, leave normal society to those of us who still want to participate in good faith.
@thecolonel-
I may be getting the guys point wrong and someone please tell me if I am but I think it’s more of a “have private institutions place restrictions how they see fit” and less of a “government place restrictions for us” kinda of deal.
Less government doesn’t necessarily mean that everyone can do whatever they want. America still thrives off of a private institution policy. I don’t think many opposers would be upset if companies places restrictions but they would be if the government does.
Sure, but I don't care what paranoid freedom warriors think about public safety. I have kids under 12 who could DIE from COVID, so I'm sorry if Qanon Joe is worried about some pie-in-the-sky fantasy of an oppressive government (that oppresses you by requiring you to protect the public health, derrrr), I'm gonna insist we err on the side of protecting lives.
I mean, the unsubstantiated fear of some potential future government oppression is reason to allow a deadly virus to continue circulating in our society? No, it's not.
@thecolonel
It’s like talking to a wall…There's far too many I’s and Me’s in the world today…There’s absolutely no way a good chunk of the population would willingly choose to save someone else if they had to do something as minor as avoid theme parks for a while longer while the virus runs itself out…I mean most will howl at the idea of putting a piece of cloth over their faces like they’re being forced to hack off one of their own limbs…
"I don't care if you're the biggest anti-vaxxer in the country - no one deserves to suffer and die from this disease. Kind communities do what they can to protect those who cannot, or even will not, protect themselves."
The problem is there is absolutely nothing that can be done save the anti-vaxxers in the LONG TERM. Restrictions can only slow the spread of the virus among the unvaccinated, but can't ultimately stop it. Eventually most of the unvaccinated will get sick. You can use vaccine passports and other intensives to try to nudge people to get the shot. But for those who refuse to get vaccinated no matter what, they are a lost cause. At some point we need to accept that they will sick, and our lives need to go back to normal.
>> So segregation is the answer?
Yes. If you choose to segregate yourself from the community by not acting in the best interests of the community, why should you get the benefits of being part of the community?
You have to be immunised to go to certain countries. Is it really that big of a deal?
>> Maybe individuals that are not vaccinated could wear a star or other symbol on their clothes that signifies their undesired status?
How disappointing it only took 3 comments to Godwin this. Grow up.
>> Honestly, there has to be some middle ground between "I'm a bit concerned over having a vaccine passport" and "this is literally Nazi Germany."
There is I think Mike. There is a legitimate concern anytime anyone builds a database someone who isn’t supposed to use it will use it for things that it’s not supposed to be used for. But if the record was as little as a unique identifier, dates of shot, and which shot it was, I can’t see any legitimate risk from that.
Vaccine passports would be the new Jim Crow, segregation is not the answer.
On the list of current things equalling Jim Crow, vaccines are rather low....
Strikes me that because people on the right have no legitimate argument against vaccines, or vaccine passports, they're left resorting to hyperbolically ridiculous analogies in an effort to end the conversation. God forbid they're forced to try and actually explain why they're arguing against public safety, and the safety of America's kids. All they have are these silly talking points delivered to them through the MAGA propaganda distribution system.
So no, requiring vaccines is not like Nazi Germany, and it's not like Segregation, and it's not like slavery, and it's not like the Crusades, and it's not like apartheid, and it's not like Lord of the Rings, and it's not like Kiss Alive and it's not like Season 2 of Superjail. Sad idiots.
But it is like segregation.
If you're an idiot and don't understand (i) the historical fact of segregation, or (2) how medical science works.
seg·re·ga·tion - the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart.
So it is segregation.
Old Keith here hasn't yet realized that the propagandists he blindly follows were referring to a historical event and not just a noun.
Keith, it's also separation, division, organization, parceling, discrimination, partitioning and a whole bunch of other words that don't make your point.
Keith - First analogies of the holocaust, and then AIDS patients; You are determined to paint yourself as a victim. The difference is that nobody chose to get AIDS. You choose to not get vaccinated. That comes with consequences, not victimization.
And you can play semantics and use the word "segregation" to amplify your self-pity and exaggeration of victimhood, all you like. But segregation carries with it connotations of systematic separation of people by observable defining characteristics. That's not the case here. It's not segregation. It's isolation and quarantine.
Which is what you do in a society to prevent the spread of disease.
Yes, it’s segregation and also discrimination.
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I am ALL FOR vaccine passports. It's not mandating vaccines. People can still stay unvaccinated if they wish. But there should be benefits for people responsible enough to get the vaccine, and those benefits include the ability to travel and attend public settings. If you don't want the vaccine, you don't get the benefits associated with it. Fair to everyone involved, and a simple solution. Maybe hard to implement...but I don't think it would be that hard if institutions had the guts to make it a rule.