If you want to understand what Disney is doing with its cruise line, you have to start in the Jungle.
The boats of the Jungle Cruise, along with the Storybook Land Canal Boats and Mark Twain Riverboat, were Disney's original watercraft. All were opening day attractions at Disneyland back in July 1955. Jungle Cruise also was an opening day attraction at Walt Disney World's Magic Kingdom in 1971. A decade later, a young skipper named Joe Schott started his Disney career in that Jungle. Today, Joe works as the president of Disney Signature Experiences, overseeing the Disney Cruise Line among other businesses for the company, including Disney Vacation Club, Adventures by Disney, and Disney's real estate developments including Golden Oak and Storyliving by Disney.
Since graduating from the Jungle, Joe has gone on to lead Disney theme parks around the world, with stops in Tokyo and Paris leading up to six years as President and GM at Shanghai Disneyland before moving over to Disney Signature Experiences.
Last week on Disney Destiny, Joe met with me in the ship's Incredible suite to talk about the cruise line and its role within the Disney Experiences segment, which includes the Disney theme parks. Since we both worked as "captains" of Disney watercraft in the Magic Kingdom in the 1980s, that commonality seemed the natural place to start our conversation.
My former co-workers in Magic Kingdom West attractions who knew and worked with Joe have nothing but good things to say about him. In fact, they are rooting for Joe to step up and become the next head of Disney Experiences, should current Chairman Josh D'Amaro get the call to succeed Bob Iger as CEO of The Walt Disney Company. Given the way that Disney Experiences is carrying Disney financially at the moment, I would not bet against Josh getting that promotion.
Here is an edited transcript of my talk with Joe.
Joe: I started at the Jungle Cruise in 1981.
Robert: Okay, so you were a little bit ahead of me. I was Tom Sawyer Island rafts, starting in 1988.
Joe: Oh really? TSI Rafts - that was quite the job back in the day. Free floating vessels.
Robert: I mourn the loss of my beloved Tom Sawyer Island rafts.
Joe: Yeah.
Robert: But it was a lot of fun just to get out there and drive and meet with people. That's the heart of everything, isn't it? The opportunity to meet with people.
Joe: Totally.
Robert: Of course, sometimes it was telling them, no, this is not the queue for Big Thunder Mountain.
Joe: It's funny, because back in the day, at the Mike Fink Keelboats as well, they thought they were getting in line for Haunted Mansion.
Robert: At the [Swiss Family] Treehouse, we got a lot of people who thought they were going to the Jungle Cruise. But you know want? No matter what line you get into, it'll be something fun.
Joe: One of the things for me that I thought was really important when I had children was to move them through that front-line experience, because I think it's so important to understand the building blocks of what quality looks like. It requires detail and hard work on a daily basis, and that discipline differentiates us from others in the industry.
Robert: You have a slightly larger vessel that you are working on here today than at the Jungle Cruise. So let's talk about Disney Destiny. This is the third Wish-class ship. It's the first time Disney's done a third in a class. How does this fit in with the ongoing evolution of Disney Cruise Line?
Joe: Yeah, it's amazing. When you look at Disney Destiny, what you experienced for the first time is a "heroes and villains" theme on a cruise ship. You're grabbed immediately coming into with the Grand Hall with the power of the Wakanda theme and the Black Panther right there in the lobby. But this ship features not only that unique element [but also] the rotational dining restaurant, for the first time, inspired by the Lion King. We hadn't done anything on Disney Cruise Line around Lion King, and then you have a brand new show that's focused on Hercules.
We will continue to explore stories that we haven't told, in a brand new way, and I hope that comes through as you visit space to space. The new Sanctum pub that we have is amazing, [as well as] small experiences that you'll have around the ship - surprises around every corner between the heroes and the villains.
Robert: What did you see in the market that led you to say, we've done a couple of these ships, [but] there's demand for more?
Joe: I think that the whole industry is growing, which gives us an opportunity to really continue to be able to extend our brand to reach new audiences. When you look at what we're doing right now, we're growing just to meet the demand that we have. When you think about Disney Cruise Line in particular, we're adding five more ships beyond the Adventure that we deliver next year, which will be our eighth ship. Basically, it will be a ship a year through 2031 that we've already announced. It's because we see huge demand for our product. As a as a point on that, just tell you that looking forward for the next year, we're already more than halfway booked.
Robert: There are people in the travel industry who are really concerned about pricing and price sensitivity in the market. Is Disney above price sensitivity at this point? Or is that something that you are taking into account as you are planning your business plan for the expansion of the cruise line?
Joe: We think about it always as value. What kind of value are you getting for what an experience costs? So when we think about what the value of Disney Cruise Line experience is, it is the comfort of cruising, it's the magic of Disney, and it's the spectacular destinations that that you that you have. We focus on those things to make sure that it's the best that it can be. So when you think about this ship in particular, you think about the beautiful interior design and just the comfort that we have built in. Now that we're 27 years into the business, we know a lot more about this particular business, and we integrate that expertise - that deep expertise that you see on the ship - into everything we do on the ship. We're really proud of that value that we provide, and you see it show up in every conceivable moment that you're on the ship.
Robert: The business model for Disney is not the same as other cruise lines. I think some people who look at Disney versus some of the other lines out there don't understand that. You don't have a casino to subsidize operations. It's much more based on live entertainment than a lot of other places. But at the same time, because you are Disney, a new business or product does not work unless it works creatively. Tell me about the process of selecting whatever characters or IP are going to go into a new ship, so that you can differentiate and still expand your market.
Joe: We are incredibly fortunate to have the number of stories that come from our studios over the years, and a lot of stories that we haven't broached before. I mentioned The Lion King, it came out in 1994 we've never touched that on any one of our cruise ships.
Robert: And you had to have been the last segment of Disney to do anything with Lion King. I thought everyone had.
Joe: I think having that opportunity to gravitate towards the stories that are going to mean the most to people and that form that emotional connection is really important, but doing in a cohesive way is also important. Thinking about a central theme for the ship, like heroes and villains, gives us an opportunity to have the framework to put together these stories in a way that's going to be meaningful for guests. I think that that's a real opportunity. Remember that as opposed to a park experience, this is much more intimate. So you have an opportunity to do very small experiences as well as large scale experiences. I hope you had a chance to see Hercules, and we're very proud of that show. But we're also proud of the small experiences that we do, like Dr. Facilier's Parlor, which is impactful and immersive for guests.
Robert: My audience has a lot of people who are starting as theme park fans but want to see the differentiation between the park experience and the cruise experience. What are some of the other things that you're looking to try, to create immersion that is unique on a platform such as cruise, as opposed to [the parks]?
Joe: Well, you can't do a place like the piano lounge that we have for Cruella de Vil in something like a theme park, because it just doesn't scale. You have to think about these intimate locations to be able to deliver an experience that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do. And I think we have to envision these spaces delivering on the high-quality stories and the level of service that we hope to be able to provide. I didn't mention it earlier, but I should mention that because of the way that we deliver the stories, this is the highest-rated experience we have in the entire world, across our Disney Experiences, and I think that it's that way because of the level of immersion that you feel.
Robert: Disney Cruise Line isn't the only thing in the portfolio that you manage. Tell me a little bit about the rest of Disney Signature Experiences and how DCL fits into that. What kind of kind of cross pollination, if you will, do you see in terms of creativity and business and guests going around these various opportunities in the company?
Joe: The way that we think about Signature Experiences is this is the reach of the Disney brand to guests outside of the theme parks. No matter where you want to travel in the world, we hope to have an experience for you - whether that is our new Storyliving community that you got a chance to experience in Cotino, the one that we're building in North Carolina as well that will follow, to Adventures by Disney, or Expeditions that are National Geographic that we work with partners to deliver. These are all unique experiences that venture out outside of the theme park, but still deliver a very high-quality experience to the to the guest. I think we're where we have an opportunity is to use that travel expertise and the deep, rich experts that we have in these businesses to look across and help each other. That's where we've been able to find a lot of synergy, by packaging them together.
Robert: It feels almost like a full circle moment from my perspective. I've talked with so many Imagineers over the years, and they're constantly going out into the world looking for inspiration to bring into the theme parks. And basically what you've done is, you've flipped it. Now you're taking a whole bunch of people who maybe started with Disney in the theme parks, and you're taking them out in the world to see that inspiration that has been fueling the Disney storytelling.
Joe: I think that's a really, really interesting point. I would also say that we've taken industry experts from each of these different categories and also fold them back into Disney. So we've deepened our pool of experts out of these ventures as well. In a lot of these destinations - you think about where I was in Shanghai before I came here - you're taking a whole lot of people who had never worked in the theme park business, and you're teaching them the high-quality nature of how we deliver our stories in an immersive way. We did that at the beginning in the cruise business, but now that group of people is growing other deep experts. So I'm really excited about the deep, rich pool of talent that we're going to have for the future, because it will service the entire company.
Robert: Are you finding any pushback with people when you are bringing them into Disney, to get them to what you hope is the Disney level? Or are you seeing people who are coming in excited, saying that they want to be at Disney and to do things different than are being done in other companies around the entertainment and travel space?
Joe: Since 1955, we started with a very simple promise, which is, we always think about things from a safety standpoint. Then, is it courteous? Is it show-worthy? And finally, is it efficient?
Robert: The Keys.
Joe: And we've added a new one recently that is more focused on inclusion, but I will tell you that thinking about that in a decision-making filter is incredibly important. Telling a new person coming into the Disney company, first starting them with the why - why do we do what we do. [We have] many roles in the world, but we only have one purpose - and that is to create a magical experience that lasts a lifetime. When you understand why we do what we do, it's easier to impart the tactics of how you do it, because you're capturing their heart and their mind. There's a reason that guys like me have been been with the company as long as I have, and that's because you believe in the product and you love the people you work with.
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For more of our coverage of Disney Destiny, please see our overview: Everything you need to know about Disney’s new cruise ship.
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I appreciate pressing Joe about the high cost of a vacation on DCL when compared to the competition. However, citing "value" is a bit of a cop out IMHO, because it doesn't change that fact that people define "value" in very different ways, particularly when on vacation, but I don't think most people would find value in something that is priced at the top of the market, and unaffordable to a large segment of the customer base.
I can appreciate where Joe is coming from here in DCL's emphasis on building immersive storytelling experiences and doing so in more intimate spaces than they can create in a theme park filled with 5-10 times as many guests as are on a typical cruise ship, but I think it's this redefining of what a "cruise" is and what DCL ship is could just as easily be adapted to an immersive, capacity-limited land-based experience. In other words, if Disney can create and operate DCL, which is focused on the immersive experiences on their ships with very limited ports of call (in the Caribbean, 2 of which are essentially extensions of the ship at themed areas on a private island), why can't they build a hotel/resort that provides the same level of quality, immersion, and overall experience? Why does an experiment like the Galactic Starcruiser fail, but Disney can justify doubling the size of their fleet in a decade? Why do DCL ships even leave port, and what kind of voodoo magic is Disney doing to generate insatiable demand for DCL when even their luxury-minded competition is priced significantly lower than Disney?
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I worked with Joe for a little over a year -- back in 1982 while I was in the MKCP. He was always regarded as a good guy. In December 1982, he and I handled a crowd control assignment during the Candlelight Processional when it was still on Main Street USA.